Torsion Bar Cranking
#78
#82
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#89
I did a little experiment on my stock 2011 XLT 4x4 SuperCab.
First measured the distance from fender the hub centre at 19.5" ride height.
Then measured the camber with a straight edge on the sidewalls of the tire and a digital level. Got -1.0°, that is negative camber, the top leaning in.
Put a jack under the centre of the crossmember and jacked the body up 2" to 21.5" ride height.
Camber was still -1.0° +/- 0.1°.
So I think camber changes little with ride height, at least near my ride height.
This is the same as if the truck was lifted with suspension mods. Cranking the torsion bar, different coil springs, whatever.
The change of camber, or lack of it, is due to the relative geometry of the upper and lower control arms. The outer ends, where the ball joints are, move on the arc of a circle. In the process they move both ball joints horizontally. If this horizontal movement is the same for upper and lower ball joint then the camber does not change.
But I would not guarantee that camber remains constant through all of the possible movement range of the control arms. That is for all possible static ride heights. Best to measure it as above.
This is not directly to do with the torsion bar. It's just that you are using the torsion bar to lift the body. It would happen just the same with coil springs if you used spacers or such to lift.
First measured the distance from fender the hub centre at 19.5" ride height.
Then measured the camber with a straight edge on the sidewalls of the tire and a digital level. Got -1.0°, that is negative camber, the top leaning in.
Put a jack under the centre of the crossmember and jacked the body up 2" to 21.5" ride height.
Camber was still -1.0° +/- 0.1°.
So I think camber changes little with ride height, at least near my ride height.
This is the same as if the truck was lifted with suspension mods. Cranking the torsion bar, different coil springs, whatever.
The change of camber, or lack of it, is due to the relative geometry of the upper and lower control arms. The outer ends, where the ball joints are, move on the arc of a circle. In the process they move both ball joints horizontally. If this horizontal movement is the same for upper and lower ball joint then the camber does not change.
But I would not guarantee that camber remains constant through all of the possible movement range of the control arms. That is for all possible static ride heights. Best to measure it as above.
This is not directly to do with the torsion bar. It's just that you are using the torsion bar to lift the body. It would happen just the same with coil springs if you used spacers or such to lift.
#91
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#97
Wow I can't believe I read this whole thread...
Here is my .02, and believe me it's not worth a whole lot. But I've been dealing with T-bars for about 12 years, but with Chevy pickups. T-bar cranking and expecting to get the same results as a regular lift... Um no! Only true way to lift a T-bar suspension, and do it right is to invest in a regular lift kit.
I don't plan on cranking the bars on my Ranger just because I don't feel like dealing with problems down the road... Besides most of the people who see my truck already think it's a 4x4 anyways. Then they ask me if I installed a lift kit... I explain to them the different suspension systems, and most just scratch their head...
Here is my .02, and believe me it's not worth a whole lot. But I've been dealing with T-bars for about 12 years, but with Chevy pickups. T-bar cranking and expecting to get the same results as a regular lift... Um no! Only true way to lift a T-bar suspension, and do it right is to invest in a regular lift kit.
I don't plan on cranking the bars on my Ranger just because I don't feel like dealing with problems down the road... Besides most of the people who see my truck already think it's a 4x4 anyways. Then they ask me if I installed a lift kit... I explain to them the different suspension systems, and most just scratch their head...
#98
Wow I can't believe I read this whole thread...
Here is my .02, and believe me it's not worth a whole lot. But I've been dealing with T-bars for about 12 years, but with Chevy pickups. T-bar cranking and expecting to get the same results as a regular lift... Um no! Only true way to lift a T-bar suspension, and do it right is to invest in a regular lift kit.
I don't plan on cranking the bars on my Ranger just because I don't feel like dealing with problems down the road... Besides most of the people who see my truck already think it's a 4x4 anyways. Then they ask me if I installed a lift kit... I explain to them the different suspension systems, and most just scratch their head...
Here is my .02, and believe me it's not worth a whole lot. But I've been dealing with T-bars for about 12 years, but with Chevy pickups. T-bar cranking and expecting to get the same results as a regular lift... Um no! Only true way to lift a T-bar suspension, and do it right is to invest in a regular lift kit.
I don't plan on cranking the bars on my Ranger just because I don't feel like dealing with problems down the road... Besides most of the people who see my truck already think it's a 4x4 anyways. Then they ask me if I installed a lift kit... I explain to them the different suspension systems, and most just scratch their head...
I forgot how many problems i've had on my 3 rangers with cranked torsion bars...oh wait none
#99
Tortion Bars...
Your explination of the geometry change that occurs when the tortion bars are "cranked up" to give the maximum lift possible short of lowered spindles or a full lift kit. This simple DIY project gave my 02 Edge enough height and room to put 31x10.5x15 tires with no problem as far as rubbing or interference of any of the front end components. You ae correct, as well, when you state that any adjustment or alteration beyond what is stock from the factory requires an alignment. I recommend a 4 wheel alignment as this gives the best wear pattern on the tires you use.
Now on to something else someone might have advice to offer or has had experience with.
I want to raise my Edge another three inches or so. I am considering using 3" lift spindles. I have no idea what he "setback" is on stock ford wheels. But I do know that the stock wheels will not carry the tires I want (33x14.50x15) And even if they would they would never clear he new spindles because the "setback" is too deep. My question is...how much "setback" should I order on the wheels I want to use (15" Smoothie deep dish chrome reverse wheels) or who can offer the information I seek. My truck is stock ford black with just a hint of metal flake and even less, but noticeable, pearl. I want to give my truck an incredibly aggressive stance. The project is called the "Tarantula Truck". There will be no "Badging" and the only things on the truck that are not black will be the wheels. The extra wide tires will extend about two to three inches past the fender on each side. And the whole shebant will be offset bt a 3" Bull Bar and High Intensity Driving lights. When finished (my goal is is on a 15April-01 May time frame) and if everything I plan works out it's gonna be a helluva looker. Engine mods like a 3" catback system, Headers, Air intake modifications, and possibly increased fuel jetting. Think It'll work?
Pictures of my "baby" will be sent this ppring.
Now on to something else someone might have advice to offer or has had experience with.
I want to raise my Edge another three inches or so. I am considering using 3" lift spindles. I have no idea what he "setback" is on stock ford wheels. But I do know that the stock wheels will not carry the tires I want (33x14.50x15) And even if they would they would never clear he new spindles because the "setback" is too deep. My question is...how much "setback" should I order on the wheels I want to use (15" Smoothie deep dish chrome reverse wheels) or who can offer the information I seek. My truck is stock ford black with just a hint of metal flake and even less, but noticeable, pearl. I want to give my truck an incredibly aggressive stance. The project is called the "Tarantula Truck". There will be no "Badging" and the only things on the truck that are not black will be the wheels. The extra wide tires will extend about two to three inches past the fender on each side. And the whole shebant will be offset bt a 3" Bull Bar and High Intensity Driving lights. When finished (my goal is is on a 15April-01 May time frame) and if everything I plan works out it's gonna be a helluva looker. Engine mods like a 3" catback system, Headers, Air intake modifications, and possibly increased fuel jetting. Think It'll work?
Pictures of my "baby" will be sent this ppring.
#100
I have no idea what he "setback" is on stock ford wheels. But I do know that the stock wheels will not carry the tires I want (33x14.50x15) And even if they would they would never clear he new spindles because the "setback" is too deep. My question is...how much "setback" should I order on the wheels I want to use (15" Smoothie deep dish chrome reverse wheels)....The extra wide tires will extend about two to three inches past the fender on each side.
Might also want to create a new thread in the 'Wheel & Tire' section for additional information: Wheels & Tires Semi-Tech - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource
That said, if you want a wheel that will support 14.50" wide tires you will need (at least) a 10" wide wheel. Then to have it 'stick out' that far - you will want it to have a rather low backspacing number.
Here is a little cheat sheet I put together for comparison - Just pick your poison:
7" wide wheel w/ 4.50" Backspacing (+12 offset) - meaning 2.50" outboard. (Stock)
8" wide wheel w/ 3.25" Backspacing (-32 offset) - meaning 4.75" outboard. (aka - 2.25" further "out" than stock as well as being 1.25" inward less than stock)
8" wide wheel w/ 3.75" Backspacing (-19 offset) - meaning 4.25" outboard. (aka - 1.75" further "out" than stock as well as being .75" inward less than stock)
8" wide wheel w/ 4.00" Backspacing (-12 offset) - meaning 4.00" outboard. (aka - 1.50" further "out" than stock as well as being .50" inward less than stock)
8" wide wheel w/ 4.50" Backspacing (0 offset) - meaning 3.50" outboard. (aka - 1.00" further "out" than stock as well as being the same distance inward as stock)
10" wide wheel w/ 3.25" Backspacing (-57 offset) - meaning 6.75" outboard. (aka - 4.25" further "out" than stock as well as being 1.25" inward less than stock)
10" wide wheel w/ 3.50" Backspacing (-51 offset) - meaning 6.50" outboard. (aka - 4.00" further "out" than stock as well as being 1.00" inward less than stock)
10" wide wheel w/ 3.75" Backspacing (-44 offset) - meaning 6.25" outboard. (aka - 3.75" further "out" than stock as well as being .75" inward less than stock)
10" wide wheel w/ 4.00" Backspacing (-38 offset) - meaning 6.00" outboard. (aka - 3.50" further "out" than stock as well as being .50" inward less than stock)
10" wide wheel w/ 4.50" Backspacing (-25 offset) - meaning 5.50" outboard. (aka - 3.00" further "out" than stock as well as being the same distance inward as stock)
Just in case: The easiest way to measure backspace is to lay the wheel face down onto the ground so the backside of the wheel is facing up. Take a straight edge and lay it across the flange of the wheel. Take a tape measure and measure the distance from the hub mounting to where it crosses the straight edge. This distance is the backspacing measurement of the wheel.
Last edited by logan03CO; 11-10-2013 at 09:25 AM.