Ford attacks TRS!
#77
12-09-2008
I must be the only one that doesnt see a problem with this. Its a Ford Ranger site of people that are making money on shirts and merchandise bearing FORD'S trademark - Ranger.
If someone makes money off of a trademark you own, wouldnt you be a little protective? Its not like its going to charity or anything, its lining someone else's pockets for PROFIT. THATS the issue.
HEY how about this, why dont i start making stickers and shirts that say "Ranger-Forums.com" on them and sell them to everyone but keep the money for myself? I mean, its getting the site exposure isnt it? Shouldnt the admin be greatful that im so fanatic about the site?
If someone makes money off of a trademark you own, wouldnt you be a little protective? Its not like its going to charity or anything, its lining someone else's pockets for PROFIT. THATS the issue.
HEY how about this, why dont i start making stickers and shirts that say "Ranger-Forums.com" on them and sell them to everyone but keep the money for myself? I mean, its getting the site exposure isnt it? Shouldnt the admin be greatful that im so fanatic about the site?
#78
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
From: NC
#79
12-09-2008
this site, nor any other ranger site is making money off of ford. tee's from this site pertain to the site and the members within. If i were to have a shirt made with my truck on it(i built it from the ground up) and sold them, would that mean i infringed on a copyright? we all spent our 20k on our trucks, i think we should be able to have freedom of speech(whether in text or picture form).
on a side note, whats so hard about putting a disclaimer on the home page? i.e. ranger-forums.com has no affiliation with ford or ford ranger.... ford and ranger are registered trademarks of ford motor company...... ??????????
on a side note, whats so hard about putting a disclaimer on the home page? i.e. ranger-forums.com has no affiliation with ford or ford ranger.... ford and ranger are registered trademarks of ford motor company...... ??????????
Then who gets the money from TRS shirts? I is it a non profit entity and such registered as one?
Your second remark is partially on the money. This isnt the first time its happened, other companies had to differentiate themselves and make note that they are not part of Ford Motor Company in any way shape or form. There is more to it than that, but still thats how it is.
You can post your truck all you want, but you cant use the name Ranger or Ford or other trademarks in the design without their permission. Why do you think all the shirts in the Sears children's department with pics of rice rockets on them never have an emblem in the grille even though its obvious of what the car is?
#80
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
From: NC
Then who gets the money from TRS shirts? I is it a non profit entity and such registered as one?
Your second remark is partially on the money. This isnt the first time its happened, other companies had to differentiate themselves and make note that they are not part of Ford Motor Company in any way shape or form. There is more to it than that, but still thats how it is.
You can post your truck all you want, but you cant use the name Ranger or Ford or other trademarks in the design without their permission. Why do you think all the shirts in the Sears children's department with pics of rice rockets on them never have an emblem in the grille even though its obvious of what the car is?
Your second remark is partially on the money. This isnt the first time its happened, other companies had to differentiate themselves and make note that they are not part of Ford Motor Company in any way shape or form. There is more to it than that, but still thats how it is.
You can post your truck all you want, but you cant use the name Ranger or Ford or other trademarks in the design without their permission. Why do you think all the shirts in the Sears children's department with pics of rice rockets on them never have an emblem in the grille even though its obvious of what the car is?
#81
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Firey depths
I must be the only one that doesnt see a problem with this. Its a Ford Ranger site of people that are making money on shirts and merchandise bearing FORD'S trademark - Ranger.
If someone makes money off of a trademark you own, wouldnt you be a little protective? Its not like its going to charity or anything, its lining someone else's pockets for PROFIT. THATS the issue.
HEY how about this, why dont i start making stickers and shirts that say "Ranger-Forums.com" on them and sell them to everyone but keep the money for myself? I mean, its getting the site exposure isnt it? Shouldnt the admin be greatful that im so fanatic about the site?
If someone makes money off of a trademark you own, wouldnt you be a little protective? Its not like its going to charity or anything, its lining someone else's pockets for PROFIT. THATS the issue.
HEY how about this, why dont i start making stickers and shirts that say "Ranger-Forums.com" on them and sell them to everyone but keep the money for myself? I mean, its getting the site exposure isnt it? Shouldnt the admin be greatful that im so fanatic about the site?
#82
12-09-2008
That CEO is the only reason Ford isnt dead already. Like it or not the man that saved Boeing from death is the reason Ford is the only automaker that DOESNT need a loan ASAP. They might need it next year if things are still sliding, but they are liquid for the time being.
thats OT, lets save the political bailout stuff for another thread.
R-F does make money off the stickers though. Be warned guys.
#83
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: York, PA
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metasch.../domain/tm.htm
here is just some information about trademark infringement/dilution
maybe they could use one of the defenses listed under number ten
here is just some information about trademark infringement/dilution
maybe they could use one of the defenses listed under number ten
#85
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 1
From: Seattle, WA
It's stupid but the way I look at it is, Ford already has their money from my truck (well, they get it from me monthly) so me selling it wouldn't do any good... but I do think that this site (and others like it) is the reason so many people have owned MULTIPLE Rangers.... I find it hard to believe we would go buy the same truck over and over w/o all the relationships and support that are found on the site. In addition, I think they are only hurting themselves because, as I said, while it may be too late to change what we drive now this would surely play into the decision to buy future Rangers....
#86
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 790
Likes: 1
From: Methuen, MA
Yes TRS is registered as a non-profit organization, and has been for years. The shirts sold are not "ranger" specific but are actually promoting the site "The Ranger Station" not the vehicle or ford, but the online community. Any money brought into the site is used to pay for the hosting of it and the bandwidth it uses, which is SIGNIFICANT.
#87
12-09-2008
It's stupid but the way I look at it is, Ford already has their money from my truck (well, they get it from me monthly) so me selling it wouldn't do any good... but I do think that this site (and others like it) is the reason so many people have owned MULTIPLE Rangers.... I find it hard to believe we would go buy the same truck over and over w/o all the relationships and support that are found on the site. In addition, I think they are only hurting themselves because, as I said, while it may be too late to change what we drive now this would surely play into the decision to buy future Rangers....
but thats not the issue!
i am also on Mercurycougar.net as well. They have not been sued or sent a cease and decist order. Why? They dont sell anything and are funded entirely by donations and the admin.
In a nutshell, this is the reason -
Ranger, when used to describe the truck Ford makes known as the Ranger, is trademark infringement especially if the association is being used to make a profit.
#88
12-09-2008
for anyone not already a member of TRS heres what all of us got a couple mins ago
Dear Member,
I appologize for this email. I don't normally email the members but this is an emergency.
Today, (December 9, 2008) I received a letter from the law offices of Howard, Phillips & Andersen that represent the Ford Motor Company. Ford is forcing us to surrender the name 'therangerstation.com' to them and stop using it. Ford states that using the name 'Ranger' when used in reference to the Ford Ranger is a trademark violation. In addition they are wanting me to pay them $5,000.
As you may know, The Ranger Station has been around for the past 10 years and has been a valuable resource to Ranger enthusiasts.
If Ford does this to us, where will they stop?
I have 10-days to surrender the name and pay them $5,000. I'm asking that you contact Ford online and ask them to reconsider making us change our name and prohibiting us from using the word 'Ranger'.
You can contact them at:
https://secure.ford.com/footer/conta...=PublicAffairs
a sample of what one of the members wrote is:
"To whom it may concern:
I am writing concerning your recent legal attacks on various "fan" websites for vehicles such as the Mustang and Ranger. I am insulted by this careless misuse of our legal system and am reconsidering any further vehicle purchases from your company until you cease and desist from any further legal action concerning this subject. I have been a Ford owner for many years and I had hoped to stay that way. These attacks are morally wrong since they are geared towards your customers, and do not instill the least bit of confidence in your brand. For the sake of your business, I ask you to please reconsider immediately.
Thank you."
Thank you for your support and I applogize for this email.
Jim Oaks
TheRangerStation.com
I appologize for this email. I don't normally email the members but this is an emergency.
Today, (December 9, 2008) I received a letter from the law offices of Howard, Phillips & Andersen that represent the Ford Motor Company. Ford is forcing us to surrender the name 'therangerstation.com' to them and stop using it. Ford states that using the name 'Ranger' when used in reference to the Ford Ranger is a trademark violation. In addition they are wanting me to pay them $5,000.
As you may know, The Ranger Station has been around for the past 10 years and has been a valuable resource to Ranger enthusiasts.
If Ford does this to us, where will they stop?
I have 10-days to surrender the name and pay them $5,000. I'm asking that you contact Ford online and ask them to reconsider making us change our name and prohibiting us from using the word 'Ranger'.
You can contact them at:
https://secure.ford.com/footer/conta...=PublicAffairs
a sample of what one of the members wrote is:
"To whom it may concern:
I am writing concerning your recent legal attacks on various "fan" websites for vehicles such as the Mustang and Ranger. I am insulted by this careless misuse of our legal system and am reconsidering any further vehicle purchases from your company until you cease and desist from any further legal action concerning this subject. I have been a Ford owner for many years and I had hoped to stay that way. These attacks are morally wrong since they are geared towards your customers, and do not instill the least bit of confidence in your brand. For the sake of your business, I ask you to please reconsider immediately.
Thank you."
Thank you for your support and I applogize for this email.
Jim Oaks
TheRangerStation.com
#89
12-09-2008
RF Veteran
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,410
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
so, the name "ranger" cannot be used unless ford authorize's it?
so, these are all in trouble???
Polaris' RANGER
New York Rangers
Texas Rangers (baseball and state patrol)
Ranger Bass Boats
The Royal Rangers of U.K.
so, these are all in trouble???
Polaris' RANGER
New York Rangers
Texas Rangers (baseball and state patrol)
Ranger Bass Boats
The Royal Rangers of U.K.
#90
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
From: NC
That CEO is the only reason Ford isnt dead already. Like it or not the man that saved Boeing from death is the reason Ford is the only automaker that DOESNT need a loan ASAP. They might need it next year if things are still sliding, but they are liquid for the time being.
thats OT, lets save the political bailout stuff for another thread.
R-F does make money off the stickers though. Be warned guys.
thats OT, lets save the political bailout stuff for another thread.
R-F does make money off the stickers though. Be warned guys.
honestly, the way i feel about it... if the "big three" could figure out how to properly run a business, they could survive through this bad economy. Im sure you are a hard worker, as most of us on this site, but really, who is worth 9mil a year just to save a business??? we are all going to have to survive on our own one of these days... if he was so good, why is ford even considering a bail out? didnt you hear his comment "yea im comfortable with 9 million a year" WTF? why comfortable??? why isnt he giving back to the company he is representing???
#91
12-09-2008
Ford states that using the name 'Ranger' when used in reference to the Ford Ranger is a trademark violation. In addition they are wanting me to pay them $5,000.
IN REFERENCE TO THE FORD RANGER
#92
12-09-2008
Yes TRS is registered as a non-profit organization, and has been for years. The shirts sold are not "ranger" specific but are actually promoting the site "The Ranger Station" not the vehicle or ford, but the online community. Any money brought into the site is used to pay for the hosting of it and the bandwidth it uses, which is SIGNIFICANT.
So instead the site is just selling unlicenced merchandise instead related to the Ford Ranger?
If its for the site, what Ranger are you referring to then? A site named The Ranger Station certainly has to do with the Ford Ranger when you go on it. The problem is the merchandise being SOLD. Not because Ford hates you. Product is being SOLD, and money is being exchanged. Thats where the line is being crossed and things get messy because there is alot more to it than just deciding you are going to make a product bearing someone else's name.
I can go out and cast emblems for classic Mustangs all I want. Till the cows come home. Its when I would try selling them that it would become an issue of infringement. Even if the money goes into a charity that gives puppy visits to sick orphans it is still infringement and the terms of use have to be worked out with the trademark holder before just going out and doing it.
#93
12-09-2008
I'm not trying to argue, but thats what the guy on TRS says, I have not seen the first letter/email from the law firm. I'm not saying the guy on TRS is BSing everyone, I just dont think we should all be wasting time on the issue until he posts up what he received...not what he says he received, but what he actually got from the law firm.
#94
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
From: NC
So instead the site is just selling unlicenced merchandise instead related to the Ford Ranger?
If its for the site, what Ranger are you referring to then? A site named The Ranger Station certainly has to do with the Ford Ranger when you go on it. The problem is the merchandise being SOLD. Not because Ford hates you. Product is being SOLD, and money is being exchanged. Thats where the line is being crossed and things get messy because there is alot more to it than just deciding you are going to make a product bearing someone else's name.
I can go out and cast emblems for classic Mustangs all I want. Till the cows come home. Its when I would try selling them that it would become an issue of infringement. Even if the money goes into a charity that gives puppy visits to sick orphans it is still infringement and the terms of use have to be worked out with the trademark holder before just going out and doing it.
If its for the site, what Ranger are you referring to then? A site named The Ranger Station certainly has to do with the Ford Ranger when you go on it. The problem is the merchandise being SOLD. Not because Ford hates you. Product is being SOLD, and money is being exchanged. Thats where the line is being crossed and things get messy because there is alot more to it than just deciding you are going to make a product bearing someone else's name.
I can go out and cast emblems for classic Mustangs all I want. Till the cows come home. Its when I would try selling them that it would become an issue of infringement. Even if the money goes into a charity that gives puppy visits to sick orphans it is still infringement and the terms of use have to be worked out with the trademark holder before just going out and doing it.
either way, i still think its a douche bag thing to do, make them surrender it and pay 5g's. why not just send them a letter asking to remove the title "ranger" or something before the harshness?
#95
12-09-2008
i know it should probably be in another thread, but this discussion does relate to the original topic.
honestly, the way i feel about it... if the "big three" could figure out how to properly run a business, they could survive through this bad economy. Im sure you are a hard worker, as most of us on this site, but really, who is worth 9mil a year just to save a business??? we are all going to have to survive on our own one of these days... if he was so good, why is ford even considering a bail out? didnt you hear his comment "yea im comfortable with 9 million a year" WTF? why comfortable??? why isnt he giving back to the company he is representing???
honestly, the way i feel about it... if the "big three" could figure out how to properly run a business, they could survive through this bad economy. Im sure you are a hard worker, as most of us on this site, but really, who is worth 9mil a year just to save a business??? we are all going to have to survive on our own one of these days... if he was so good, why is ford even considering a bail out? didnt you hear his comment "yea im comfortable with 9 million a year" WTF? why comfortable??? why isnt he giving back to the company he is representing???
This is the last comment ill make on this in this thread because even though it relates to the thread, it is a stretch.
If the CEO of the company i work for keeps it from going out of business and saves the 60,000 jobs that we directly employ, yes, i say hes worth it. Not only do we have 60,000 people employed directly by us, we have thousands more that are contractors that work for us, but are not direct employees (secretaries, custodians etc..). Even beyond those, we have suppliers too. We get raw material from somewhere. We make more than just car paint. We supply Ford and just about every other OEM out there. We make fetilizer for agriculteral use in farms. We make those stupid little jackets that Netflix puts their DVDs in when you guys get them in the mail! That isnt all handled all the way down the ladder by us alone to that point. We are a huge company but not anywhere as large as Ford. Yet if we went under tomorrow, well over 100K people would feel it directly.
Now, Ford directly employes more than double what we do and has suppliers in numbers that trump ours.
9 million dollars is paltry to keep a company afloat that supports that many people.
Oh, did you not hear that he is taking $1 (one dollar, US) for his salary in 2009 as well?
#96
12-09-2008
I'm not trying to argue, but thats what the guy on TRS says, I have not seen the first letter/email from the law firm. I'm not saying the guy on TRS is BSing everyone, I just dont think we should all be wasting time on the issue until he posts up what he received...not what he says he received, but what he actually got from the law firm.
#97
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 790
Likes: 1
From: Methuen, MA
The merchandise is not related to the ford ranger, it is related to an internet forum, a community of enthusiasts. It would be the same as a forum about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. It is not merchandise about the sandwiches, but about the internet forum. If the shirt had a picture of a ranger on it, with the words "Ford Ranger" or "Ranger" then it would be a problem, but the shirt has the TRS american flag logo with the website address on it.
It is no different than the 100 www.ranger-forums.com stickers waiting to sell here. Or the shirts that they are working on.
It is no different than the 100 www.ranger-forums.com stickers waiting to sell here. Or the shirts that they are working on.
#98
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
From: NC
This is the last comment ill make on this in this thread because even though it relates to the thread, it is a stretch.
If the CEO of the company i work for keeps it from going out of business and saves the 60,000 jobs that we directly employ, yes, i say hes worth it. Not only do we have 60,000 people employed directly by us, we have thousands more that are contractors that work for us, but are not direct employees (secretaries, custodians etc..). Even beyond those, we have suppliers too. We get raw material from somewhere. We make more than just car paint. We supply Ford and just about every other OEM out there. We make fetilizer for agriculteral use in farms. We make those stupid little jackets that Netflix puts their DVDs in when you guys get them in the mail! That isnt all handled all the way down the ladder by us alone to that point. We are a huge company but not anywhere as large as Ford. Yet if we went under tomorrow, well over 100K people would feel it directly.
Now, Ford directly employes more than double what we do and has suppliers in numbers that trump ours.
9 million dollars is paltry to keep a company afloat that supports that many people.
Oh, did you not hear that he is taking $1 (one dollar, US) for his salary in 2009 as well?
If the CEO of the company i work for keeps it from going out of business and saves the 60,000 jobs that we directly employ, yes, i say hes worth it. Not only do we have 60,000 people employed directly by us, we have thousands more that are contractors that work for us, but are not direct employees (secretaries, custodians etc..). Even beyond those, we have suppliers too. We get raw material from somewhere. We make more than just car paint. We supply Ford and just about every other OEM out there. We make fetilizer for agriculteral use in farms. We make those stupid little jackets that Netflix puts their DVDs in when you guys get them in the mail! That isnt all handled all the way down the ladder by us alone to that point. We are a huge company but not anywhere as large as Ford. Yet if we went under tomorrow, well over 100K people would feel it directly.
Now, Ford directly employes more than double what we do and has suppliers in numbers that trump ours.
9 million dollars is paltry to keep a company afloat that supports that many people.
Oh, did you not hear that he is taking $1 (one dollar, US) for his salary in 2009 as well?
yea, im pretty sure i heard that 1 dollar thing somewhere, which is good on his part... ill let this be the last post about this as well... thanks for the different perspective!
#99
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: pasadena, ca
or was the 9 mil blown on his private jet that he flew on to ask for billions?
#100
12-09-2008
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
From: NC
The merchandise is not related to the ford ranger, it is related to an internet forum, a community of enthusiasts. It would be the same as a forum about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. It is not merchandise about the sandwiches, but about the internet forum. If the shirt had a picture of a ranger on it, with the words "Ford Ranger" or "Ranger" then it would be a problem, but the shirt has the TRS american flag logo with the website address on it.
the merchandise relates to the forum which relates to the Ford Ranger. It all comes down to the use of the word "ranger" for profit.
It is no different than the 100 www.ranger-forums.com stickers waiting to sell here. Or the shirts that they are working on.
