Intermittent problems after new engine
#1
Intermittent problems after new engine
Greetings! I hope someone has ideas. The vehicle is a 204 Ranger, 4.0, manual trans, 4X4.
I put a new engine in and I have driveability problems. The truck will run fine for about 30 seconds, then stumble and have little power. After 1-2 minutes, it will be fine for another half minute or so.
Things I have done:
New crank sensor, cam sensor, injectors, upstream O2 sensors. I did these just because I was putting in the new engine.
Things I have observed:
Error codes (and check engine light) don't always happen. I can drive for perhaps 15 minutes before the light comes on-even with these fairly severe problems. Error codes are P2196, P2197, P2198. Yup, it's reading the O2 sensors as being stuck both rich and lean.
The short term fuel readings are way out of wack; they vary from -28 to +66. I notice as bank 1 (passenger) goes lean, bank 2 goes rich.
Cleaned the MAP sensor. Just a whim.
Can't find a vacuum leak---doesn't mean there isn't one!
I need ideas! I have to leave on a trip in about a week and need this fixed.
Thanks for ideas!
Chris
I put a new engine in and I have driveability problems. The truck will run fine for about 30 seconds, then stumble and have little power. After 1-2 minutes, it will be fine for another half minute or so.
Things I have done:
New crank sensor, cam sensor, injectors, upstream O2 sensors. I did these just because I was putting in the new engine.
Things I have observed:
Error codes (and check engine light) don't always happen. I can drive for perhaps 15 minutes before the light comes on-even with these fairly severe problems. Error codes are P2196, P2197, P2198. Yup, it's reading the O2 sensors as being stuck both rich and lean.
The short term fuel readings are way out of wack; they vary from -28 to +66. I notice as bank 1 (passenger) goes lean, bank 2 goes rich.
Cleaned the MAP sensor. Just a whim.
Can't find a vacuum leak---doesn't mean there isn't one!
I need ideas! I have to leave on a trip in about a week and need this fixed.
Thanks for ideas!
Chris
#2
Welcome to the forum.
2004 Ranger with factory 4.0l SOHC and you pulled that out and put in another 4.0l SOHC engine.
So same engines, right?
I would get or rent a fuel pressure gauge.
60-70psi is what you should see when engine is idling
Raise engine RPMs to about 2,500 and hold it there watch if fuel pressure starts to drop, if it does then fuel pump is most like starting to fail.
If fuel pressure is jumping around then you will get lean/rich codes and fuel trims, computer is trying to keep O2 sensors showing good burn but as pressure drops it opens injectors longer and longer to stop lean burn and then a jump in pressure causes it to go rich suddenly.
Video on finding schrader valve here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7mYC9JwMLg
Also back by the schrader valve there should be the Pulse damper, end of the fuel rail, it will have a vacuum hose attached, check this hose for fuel, shouldn't be any sign/smell of fuel in that hose, if damper leaks then fuel is sucked into engine, causing same symptoms.
Another test is for leaking fuel injectors, they are new which means never tested, not they work.
After engine is warmed up shut it off
Turn on the key
Press gas pedal to the floor and hold it down all the way
Crank engine
It should NOT start, or fire at all
All fuel injection computers have a "Clear Flooded engine" routine
With key on, computer on, engine off, if computer sees WOT(wide open throttle), gas pedal to the floor, it will enter clear flooded engine mode, it will shut off fuel injectors but leave spark on.
So when you crank the engine there should be no fuel in intake so no starting or firing at all.
As soon as you release gas pedal injectors will start, or if engine does fire enough and RPMs show above 400 then computer will restart injectors.
If engine does fire then you have fuel getting in to intake.
If you disable coil and do the same above test you could ID the leaking injector.
After cranking pull all the spark plugs, the wet one has the leaking injector
I would also buy a Fuel Pump Relay, just a standard car relay, under $8, while it is unusual for these to fail they do.
It is in the engine fuse box.
2004 Ranger with factory 4.0l SOHC and you pulled that out and put in another 4.0l SOHC engine.
So same engines, right?
I would get or rent a fuel pressure gauge.
60-70psi is what you should see when engine is idling
Raise engine RPMs to about 2,500 and hold it there watch if fuel pressure starts to drop, if it does then fuel pump is most like starting to fail.
If fuel pressure is jumping around then you will get lean/rich codes and fuel trims, computer is trying to keep O2 sensors showing good burn but as pressure drops it opens injectors longer and longer to stop lean burn and then a jump in pressure causes it to go rich suddenly.
Video on finding schrader valve here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7mYC9JwMLg
Also back by the schrader valve there should be the Pulse damper, end of the fuel rail, it will have a vacuum hose attached, check this hose for fuel, shouldn't be any sign/smell of fuel in that hose, if damper leaks then fuel is sucked into engine, causing same symptoms.
Another test is for leaking fuel injectors, they are new which means never tested, not they work.
After engine is warmed up shut it off
Turn on the key
Press gas pedal to the floor and hold it down all the way
Crank engine
It should NOT start, or fire at all
All fuel injection computers have a "Clear Flooded engine" routine
With key on, computer on, engine off, if computer sees WOT(wide open throttle), gas pedal to the floor, it will enter clear flooded engine mode, it will shut off fuel injectors but leave spark on.
So when you crank the engine there should be no fuel in intake so no starting or firing at all.
As soon as you release gas pedal injectors will start, or if engine does fire enough and RPMs show above 400 then computer will restart injectors.
If engine does fire then you have fuel getting in to intake.
If you disable coil and do the same above test you could ID the leaking injector.
After cranking pull all the spark plugs, the wet one has the leaking injector
I would also buy a Fuel Pump Relay, just a standard car relay, under $8, while it is unusual for these to fail they do.
It is in the engine fuse box.
Last edited by RonD; 05-01-2016 at 12:57 PM.
#3
#6
Well if I were in your shoes, I would start by double checking all your work.
Look for any wiring harness that could be pinched or laying against a hot exhaust manifold.
When you installed the the long block did you use any RTV - sealant that is not compatible to O2 sensors?
looking at the Pin Point test for these codes one of the basic things to look for as you know is vacuum leaks.
Get a hand held propane torch remove the tip and install a 3 or 4 foot vacuum line, use the regulator to adjust the flow of propane near any suspected sources of leaks while the engine is running.
if you replaced the pcv valve pull it from the engine but leave it connected to the vacuum line. block off the valve to see if the symptoms improve.
I am guessing the engine did not have this particular problem with the old engine and appeared after installing the new engine.
If this is the case I wouldn't have a reason to suspect a part failure.
If you double check your work and still do not find any problems from anything listed above, I would suggest getting a subscription to Alldata diy and follow the pin point test for each code you have.
My gut feeling is something was missed during the install of the engine.
BTW you didn't mention what happened to cause you to replace the engine, did it overheat? or something catastrophic happen?
Look for any wiring harness that could be pinched or laying against a hot exhaust manifold.
When you installed the the long block did you use any RTV - sealant that is not compatible to O2 sensors?
looking at the Pin Point test for these codes one of the basic things to look for as you know is vacuum leaks.
Get a hand held propane torch remove the tip and install a 3 or 4 foot vacuum line, use the regulator to adjust the flow of propane near any suspected sources of leaks while the engine is running.
if you replaced the pcv valve pull it from the engine but leave it connected to the vacuum line. block off the valve to see if the symptoms improve.
I am guessing the engine did not have this particular problem with the old engine and appeared after installing the new engine.
If this is the case I wouldn't have a reason to suspect a part failure.
If you double check your work and still do not find any problems from anything listed above, I would suggest getting a subscription to Alldata diy and follow the pin point test for each code you have.
My gut feeling is something was missed during the install of the engine.
BTW you didn't mention what happened to cause you to replace the engine, did it overheat? or something catastrophic happen?
#8
#9
Have to have a pulse damper, not optional with 70psi fuel pressure.
Look on opposite side of engine end of the fuel rail near firewall, check vacuum hose
With that much pressure each time an injector opens and closes there will be a pulse wave formed, if there was no damper then they would build up, and as an injector opened if wave was passing by then less fuel or more fuel would flow into the engine depending on what part of the wave was there.
Older 30-40psi fuel systems could have the same issue but they used a Fuel Pressure Regulator which was a rubber diaphragm so acted as a pulse damper does, adsorbing pressure waves so they can't increase
Look on opposite side of engine end of the fuel rail near firewall, check vacuum hose
With that much pressure each time an injector opens and closes there will be a pulse wave formed, if there was no damper then they would build up, and as an injector opened if wave was passing by then less fuel or more fuel would flow into the engine depending on what part of the wave was there.
Older 30-40psi fuel systems could have the same issue but they used a Fuel Pressure Regulator which was a rubber diaphragm so acted as a pulse damper does, adsorbing pressure waves so they can't increase
Last edited by RonD; 05-01-2016 at 03:40 PM.
#10
Thanks, Ron. I'll keep looking. I just ohm'd the lines to the O2 bank 2 sensor and found shorts in three of the wires. The ground wire (obviously) which is tan on my Bosch sensor and BOTH white wires-which are heater. Guess I'll start by pulling the intake manifold to get to the wires.
When I get the intake manifold off, I'll look for the pulse damper.
When I get the intake manifold off, I'll look for the pulse damper.
#11
Just moved the coil and disconnected the harness both at the PCM and the O2 sensor. Now I'm getting normal resistance in all 4 wires. I'll check the plug next. I have 3 wiring diagrams, none of which are correct according to my particular vehicle. They also disagree with each other. However they are a clue, which is better than nothing. Back to the drawing board!
#12
On 2004 Ranger with 4.0l SOHC I am showing Light Blue/Orange stripe wire as the common Power for the O2 heaters, coming from fuse #41 15amp in engine fuse box.
Then each will have Grey/red stripe wire for O2 signal ground
So Light blue and Grey/red wires will be on all O2s, Light blues are spliced together and Grey/red are spliced together
The heated circuit Ground wire on each will be a different color, which goes to Computer so it can monitor heater voltage.
And then each will have a different color O2 signal wire going to computer for the O2 voltage, .1 to .9 volts, generated by the O2 sensor from chemical reaction with oxygen in exhaust.
So wouldn't make sense to have 2 white wires at 1 O2 sensor
Then each will have Grey/red stripe wire for O2 signal ground
So Light blue and Grey/red wires will be on all O2s, Light blues are spliced together and Grey/red are spliced together
The heated circuit Ground wire on each will be a different color, which goes to Computer so it can monitor heater voltage.
And then each will have a different color O2 signal wire going to computer for the O2 voltage, .1 to .9 volts, generated by the O2 sensor from chemical reaction with oxygen in exhaust.
So wouldn't make sense to have 2 white wires at 1 O2 sensor
#13
FOUND IT! It was a wiring glitch. Seems a wire was pinched. Took off coil pack, PCV, straightened wires,, etc. While I was at it, checked all wires to O2 sensors; they did not match either wiring diagram I had.
One from Chilton's and the other from a college auto repair program which said it was specifically for my truck. Tracing/find wire terminals is fun........
I was able to drive the truck for 45 minutes without an error code. YIPEE!
The truck drove well, with some VERY minor hesitation and stumbling issues. It felt like slightly rough pavement once in a while. Software from my computer (OBDwiz) indicated heating element on opposite bank upper O2 sensor not working properly all of the time---but did not show up on the check engine light.
I'll check all of the wiring and take it for a longer ride today.
Thanks for all of the help!
Chris
One from Chilton's and the other from a college auto repair program which said it was specifically for my truck. Tracing/find wire terminals is fun........
I was able to drive the truck for 45 minutes without an error code. YIPEE!
The truck drove well, with some VERY minor hesitation and stumbling issues. It felt like slightly rough pavement once in a while. Software from my computer (OBDwiz) indicated heating element on opposite bank upper O2 sensor not working properly all of the time---but did not show up on the check engine light.
I'll check all of the wiring and take it for a longer ride today.
Thanks for all of the help!
Chris
#16
Drove it 200 miles today to complete the break on for the first oil; change. Achieved 21.3 MPG--better than it was new! Gave a lean cycle error code once on the opposite bank that was the problem before, but I turned it off and it hasn't returned. I'll continue to monitor it, but the way it runs and the fuel economy indicate it can't be too far off.
Thursday I will take toe core back to Spokane. It's about a 700 mile round trip. This should almost complete the break in.
Thanks for everyone's support!
Chris
Thursday I will take toe core back to Spokane. It's about a 700 mile round trip. This should almost complete the break in.
Thanks for everyone's support!
Chris
#17
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