Non flex to run e85?
#1
Non flex to run e85?
Hey everybody. I have a 2003 2.3l ranger. I have heard that you can reprogram the computer to run e85. Any ideas? I have also been told by a mechanic friend of mine that the computer is the only difference between the non flex and flex fuel versions. Any help would be appriciated. Thanks!
#2
No, you can't just do that. You also need new injectors. It requires more E85 for the same amount of air and the conventional fuel injectors can't keep up. E85 capable vehicles have fuel injectors rated for 1.5 to 2 times the capacity of non-flex vehicles, so your mechanic is probably wrong. It's possible Ford used the bigger injectors in all 2.3's -- but that doesn't sound like Ford.
My 3.0 flex-fuel has a different part number injector than the standard 3.0. This is probably true for the 2.3 if they've ever made a flex fuel version of it. For some reason, my tank assembly is different also, as is the wiring to it, but it's unclear why that is.
Also, the seals and what not are potentially different in the fuel systems of E85 vehicles. Not sure about 2003.
My 3.0 flex-fuel has a different part number injector than the standard 3.0. This is probably true for the 2.3 if they've ever made a flex fuel version of it. For some reason, my tank assembly is different also, as is the wiring to it, but it's unclear why that is.
Also, the seals and what not are potentially different in the fuel systems of E85 vehicles. Not sure about 2003.
#3
#4
Dead on, Aaron. E85 combines the best of two chemical "solvents", and probably amplifies the action of both. There are only a few materials which can withstand both of them and they are more expensive generally. Most automakers probably don't build with more expensive parts just to do it, lol...
It may be, as ethanol is added more and more to gasoline, that vehicles will be built to withstand it, and probably many are already. It's just hard to KNOW that.
It may be, as ethanol is added more and more to gasoline, that vehicles will be built to withstand it, and probably many are already. It's just hard to KNOW that.
#6
It was for me: I got a $1500 tax credit for buying a multi-fuel vehicle, lol. But that has expired now.
It's nice to think you have an alternative fuel source available -- but the problem is there is NO E85 available here for public purchase. Most of the nearest one are fleet vehicle pumps that are only accessible to the fleet of the company that owns the pumps.
It's nice to think you have an alternative fuel source available -- but the problem is there is NO E85 available here for public purchase. Most of the nearest one are fleet vehicle pumps that are only accessible to the fleet of the company that owns the pumps.
#7
There are supposedly millions of E85 vehicles on the road. All companies at points have made vehicles. My friends chevy 1500, i dont remember the engine but 4.something, which is very fast, also runs on ethanol.
The benefit of ethanol is if there's a situation where there's a lack of gas at the stations, E85 vehicles will still be able to get gas where most people cannot.
The downside is it is still 85 percent gas unfortunately.
Aaron
The benefit of ethanol is if there's a situation where there's a lack of gas at the stations, E85 vehicles will still be able to get gas where most people cannot.
The downside is it is still 85 percent gas unfortunately.
Aaron
#8
Actually, Aaron, it's the other way around: 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline.
And therein lies the rub: the marketplace for E85 is so spotty, there are remarkably few places to get it, even in highly populated areas like the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area (which I'm on the edge of).
You MIGHT be able to run conventional cars on a mixture the other way around, in terms of the injection and combustion and all -- I'm just not sure at what threshold the ethanol becomes excessively corrosive and dissolving.
And therein lies the rub: the marketplace for E85 is so spotty, there are remarkably few places to get it, even in highly populated areas like the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area (which I'm on the edge of).
You MIGHT be able to run conventional cars on a mixture the other way around, in terms of the injection and combustion and all -- I'm just not sure at what threshold the ethanol becomes excessively corrosive and dissolving.
#9
#10
Yes, but with more horsepower, conversely enough.
Since it takes more of it, per unit of air to get the right combustion ratio, you use more per stroke. HOWEVER, it has a higher energy release than gasoline, so you do get more torque/horsepower.
Confusing, no?
And I didn't GET $1500 -- what I got was a deduction that probably got me back $300 to $500 in my tax bracket. Not complaining though.
It used to be more, but as they phased it out it reduced. For TY 2002 it was $1500 and for TY 2003 I think it dropped to $1000 and then it disappeared at some point unless it was renewed.
It may be possible to amend your return from a previous year and claim the deduction.
Since it takes more of it, per unit of air to get the right combustion ratio, you use more per stroke. HOWEVER, it has a higher energy release than gasoline, so you do get more torque/horsepower.
Confusing, no?
And I didn't GET $1500 -- what I got was a deduction that probably got me back $300 to $500 in my tax bracket. Not complaining though.
It used to be more, but as they phased it out it reduced. For TY 2002 it was $1500 and for TY 2003 I think it dropped to $1000 and then it disappeared at some point unless it was renewed.
It may be possible to amend your return from a previous year and claim the deduction.
#11
Originally Posted by n3elz
Actually, Aaron, it's the other way around: 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline.
And therein lies the rub: the marketplace for E85 is so spotty, there are remarkably few places to get it, even in highly populated areas like the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area (which I'm on the edge of).
You MIGHT be able to run conventional cars on a mixture the other way around, in terms of the injection and combustion and all -- I'm just not sure at what threshold the ethanol becomes excessively corrosive and dissolving.
And therein lies the rub: the marketplace for E85 is so spotty, there are remarkably few places to get it, even in highly populated areas like the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area (which I'm on the edge of).
You MIGHT be able to run conventional cars on a mixture the other way around, in terms of the injection and combustion and all -- I'm just not sure at what threshold the ethanol becomes excessively corrosive and dissolving.
OH dang! I always though it was wierd because it was so much gas and so little ethanol! That changes my outlook on it haha.
Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline. However, E85 also has a much higher octane (ranging from 100 to 105) than gasoline. FFVs are not optimized to E85, so they experience a 10-15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on the way one drives, the air pressure in the tires, and additional driving conditions..
For comparison purposes, aggressive driving habits can result in a 20% loss and low tire pressure can reduce mileage by 6%. Research indicates Ford FFVs experience a 5% horsepower gain on E85. The range of any particular vehicle is dependent on the size of the fuel tank and driving habits. Current Ford Taurus FFVs have an 18-gallon fuel tank and will normally travel 350 miles between refuelings.
For comparison purposes, aggressive driving habits can result in a 20% loss and low tire pressure can reduce mileage by 6%. Research indicates Ford FFVs experience a 5% horsepower gain on E85. The range of any particular vehicle is dependent on the size of the fuel tank and driving habits. Current Ford Taurus FFVs have an 18-gallon fuel tank and will normally travel 350 miles between refuelings.
Aaron
#12
#13
#14
Originally Posted by 4X2XLT
^^ lol i just read that exact exerpt from the site....
anyone see any prices for it? is it more but its trying to reduce are dependance or less becuase less gas?
anyone see any prices for it? is it more but its trying to reduce are dependance or less becuase less gas?
#15
#16
Originally Posted by n3elz
No, you can't just do that. You also need new injectors. It requires more E85 for the same amount of air and the conventional fuel injectors can't keep up. E85 capable vehicles have fuel injectors rated for 1.5 to 2 times the capacity of non-flex vehicles, so your mechanic is probably wrong. It's possible Ford used the bigger injectors in all 2.3's -- but that doesn't sound like Ford.
My 3.0 flex-fuel has a different part number injector than the standard 3.0. This is probably true for the 2.3 if they've ever made a flex fuel version of it. For some reason, my tank assembly is different also, as is the wiring to it, but it's unclear why that is.
Also, the seals and what not are potentially different in the fuel systems of E85 vehicles. Not sure about 2003.
My 3.0 flex-fuel has a different part number injector than the standard 3.0. This is probably true for the 2.3 if they've ever made a flex fuel version of it. For some reason, my tank assembly is different also, as is the wiring to it, but it's unclear why that is.
Also, the seals and what not are potentially different in the fuel systems of E85 vehicles. Not sure about 2003.
#18
#19
Originally Posted by Pinecone
I think replacing all the fuel components and the pcm and whatever else, just makes trying to make your engine flex fuel just about worthless. Thats alot of money and effort for gas you can't buy hardly anywhere and doesn't give you any better gas mileage.
They need to invent a truck that runs on dirt..or saltwater, moss would do good here. Damn, if i could get a paper burning engine i'd be in business.
Aaron
#20
Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger
They need to invent a truck that runs on dirt..or saltwater, moss would do good here. Damn, if i could get a paper burning engine i'd be in business.
Aaron
Aaron
#21
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