Project 5.0L, Stage 1: Done....
#27
02-02-2006
Originally Posted by Gearhead61
Wait you are building the 302 for the splash right now, right? And then when you get the 351 built and ready, then that goes in the splash and the 302 goes in the silver truck?
Ok I see now.
Ok I see now.
Originally Posted by telemaster1952
5.0 splash???
i would love to have a truck like that
i would love to have a truck like that
#36
02-03-2006
Originally Posted by HighRollerII
whats the W or C after the 351 mean...
Now a 351 Windsor is really a slightly enlarged 289/302, as it's name implies it comes from Fords "Windsor" engine family (a.k.a. the 90-degree V engine family). The thin-wall cast SMALL BLOCK accepts regular sized spark plugs, uses a timing chain in the block, routes water through the intake manifold, features thin main-bearing caps, a very good oiling system, and uses the same heads for 2V & 4V versions. The heads are are small, utilizing in-line valves with relatively small ports. The valves are 1.78" intake and 1.54" exhaust, i.e. the same size as a 289/302. The valve covers are straight (front to rear), attached by 5 bolts, and when removed you can see 351 cast in the lifter valley. The small side-by side (in-line) valves are the dead give-away.
The 351 Cleveland, on the other hand, belongs to Ford's 335 engine family. This thin-wall cast BIG SMALL BLOCK uses the smaller 14mm spark plugs, has a separate front cover (bolted to the block) housing the timing chain and routing water - so that water does not go through the intake manifold, features beefy main caps (wide enough to drill for 4-bolt mains), a poor oiling system, and uses different heads for 2V & 4V versions. The heads make all the difference and these fire breathing babies make this motor the legend it is. On the 4V, the valves are HUGE, measuring 2.19" intake and 1.7n" exhaust (don't remember exactly). Valves this large are only possible via a canted valve arrangement, forming what Ford refers to as a "poly-angle" combustion chamber. The valve covers are not straight - the front is flat and parallel to the ground, but a curve twists the rear parallel to the head. They are attached by 8-bolts and when removed, there is a 4 cast into the corner of the 4V and a 2 cast into the corner of the 2V (at least in 1970). The canted valves are the dead giveaway.
The 351 Cleveland, on the other hand, belongs to Ford's 335 engine family. This thin-wall cast BIG SMALL BLOCK uses the smaller 14mm spark plugs, has a separate front cover (bolted to the block) housing the timing chain and routing water - so that water does not go through the intake manifold, features beefy main caps (wide enough to drill for 4-bolt mains), a poor oiling system, and uses different heads for 2V & 4V versions. The heads make all the difference and these fire breathing babies make this motor the legend it is. On the 4V, the valves are HUGE, measuring 2.19" intake and 1.7n" exhaust (don't remember exactly). Valves this large are only possible via a canted valve arrangement, forming what Ford refers to as a "poly-angle" combustion chamber. The valve covers are not straight - the front is flat and parallel to the ground, but a curve twists the rear parallel to the head. They are attached by 8-bolts and when removed, there is a 4 cast into the corner of the 4V and a 2 cast into the corner of the 2V (at least in 1970). The canted valves are the dead giveaway.
351 Cleveland
#37
02-03-2006
Unregistered User
Posts: n/a
People have been known to put Cleveland heads on Windsor blocks. All the water jackets ( basically ) line up. Adapters for intake manifolds are available as well.
The problem with Clevelands.. They never became popular and there isn;t much in the aftermarket for them. Most people dumped their Clevelands and went with FE 390's as they were cheaper to build and put out more power.
The Windsor shares a LOT in common with the ' Small Block Ford ' aftermarket.
The problem with Clevelands.. They never became popular and there isn;t much in the aftermarket for them. Most people dumped their Clevelands and went with FE 390's as they were cheaper to build and put out more power.
The Windsor shares a LOT in common with the ' Small Block Ford ' aftermarket.
#38
02-03-2006
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: Haltom City , Texas
Pre 74 351w heads came with 1.84 intake valves . 351w's also have very strong bottom ends , despite being onlt two bolts on the mains . They use 3/8 inch rod bolts instead of the 5/16 that were used on 5.0's. The bottom end of a 351w is basically as strong stock as a 460 bottom end , 3 inch main journals and all. For all street driven purposes the bottom end is already built . There are extremely low priced stroker kits for the 351w to 393ci using stock rods and 302 pistons. Cheap monster torque anyone ? Can easily make 425 ft. pounds with longevity. Uuuh Zack , you are going adjustable valvetrain aren't you ?
Last edited by BOB; 02-03-2006 at 04:13 PM. Reason: addition
#39
02-04-2006
I am going with a whole cam roller lifter push rods push rod guides kit, i have it picked out and now cant find the motorsport book i'll get back to ya. still using stock valves for now getting the whole head mechined and valve seats reground
#42
03-15-2006
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 886
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From: Mesa, Arizona
Originally Posted by JoshT
Windsor or Cleveland respectively. Just don't ask me the diffrences between the two.
Basically if you have a V8 you want a 390 or a 460 IMO.
#43
03-15-2006
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
From: Murfreesboro, TN
Originally Posted by IR0NS1N
I believe Cleveland was overall more of a "big" engine then a Windsor, however the Windsor was supported more then the Cleveland and eventually had more mods to make it more powerful. My friend has a Cleveland in his Tbird (he dropped it in) and man is that engine sexy! A 351 is a 5.6L I think. I know Chevy is a 5.7 for its 350.
Basically if you have a V8 you want a 390 or a 460 IMO.
Basically if you have a V8 you want a 390 or a 460 IMO.
a 351 is bigger in liters then a 350 because those numers are in cubic inches so if you convert it all out a 351 = 5.751859 L and a 350 = 5.735472
#44
03-15-2006
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,223
Likes: 1
From: Merritt Island, FL
Originally Posted by IR0NS1N
A 351 is a 5.6L I think.
Similarly, the 302c.i.d. is closer to 4.9L than 5.0L, but alot of factors went into the decision to call it a 5.0, including that it sounded and looked cooler, and the emblem took less plastic to produce!
#46
03-15-2006
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 4
From: Coal Region, MTC to be exact...heart of the coal region.
why are u having it bored out if she still has the crosshatching? just have the ridge knocked down and have the cylinder walls honed.
the 351C share the SBF bellhousing and were strong runners back in the mid 70s to mid 80s until the 351W became avaible. the boss 302 was a 302 block with 351C heads with a special intake. there were two versions of the 351C (actually 3), a 2bbl, 4bbl and aussie headed version. the aussie version combined the 2bbl and 4bbl goodies into one head.
the 351C can and will make tremdous power with little work, but is overlooked now because more conentration went to the 351W because it has been in producion longer. the 351C was only made from 1970-1974.
the 351W has a 1" talled deck height over the 302 and shares quite a lot with the 302. in fact the serpintine accessories from a 302 will work on a 351, as will the heads but require different head bolts. also the headers will swap pretty much. as said before u can make a 392/393 stroker from a 351W ridiclously cheap...its silly not to do it.
the 351M is actually a destroked 400M and both were torque monsters. but they were hampered with a 4 degree retard in cam timing and a half assed smog set up. remove the smog set up, set the cam back to 0* and it'll run like a raped ape. despite what most people say, the 351/400M were good motors, just choked severly to abide to the strict smog rules of the era.
anything else u wanna know? LOL
the 351C share the SBF bellhousing and were strong runners back in the mid 70s to mid 80s until the 351W became avaible. the boss 302 was a 302 block with 351C heads with a special intake. there were two versions of the 351C (actually 3), a 2bbl, 4bbl and aussie headed version. the aussie version combined the 2bbl and 4bbl goodies into one head.
the 351C can and will make tremdous power with little work, but is overlooked now because more conentration went to the 351W because it has been in producion longer. the 351C was only made from 1970-1974.
the 351W has a 1" talled deck height over the 302 and shares quite a lot with the 302. in fact the serpintine accessories from a 302 will work on a 351, as will the heads but require different head bolts. also the headers will swap pretty much. as said before u can make a 392/393 stroker from a 351W ridiclously cheap...its silly not to do it.
the 351M is actually a destroked 400M and both were torque monsters. but they were hampered with a 4 degree retard in cam timing and a half assed smog set up. remove the smog set up, set the cam back to 0* and it'll run like a raped ape. despite what most people say, the 351/400M were good motors, just choked severly to abide to the strict smog rules of the era.
anything else u wanna know? LOL
Last edited by optikal illushun; 03-15-2006 at 08:36 PM.
#47
03-15-2006
Originally Posted by Wowak
Although the 351 is approx. 5.75 liters, Ford refers to the engine as the 5.8.
Similarly, the 302c.i.d. is closer to 4.9L than 5.0L, but alot of factors went into the decision to call it a 5.0, including that it sounded and looked cooler, and the emblem took less plastic to produce!
Similarly, the 302c.i.d. is closer to 4.9L than 5.0L, but alot of factors went into the decision to call it a 5.0, including that it sounded and looked cooler, and the emblem took less plastic to produce!
#48
03-15-2006
Originally Posted by optikal illushun
why are u having it bored out if she still has the crosshatching? just have the ridge knocked down and have the cylinder walls honed.
