Stumped
#1
09-04-2017
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Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
Stumped
94 Ford Ranger 2.3 L .4x4 stepside. replaced coil packs replaced ICM replace PCM replace fuel pump replace plugs and wires replaced timing belt and tensioner, and keyed ign. Took apart ALL plugs cleaned and greased replaced fuel pump and filter new crank sensor... whats left?? Starts now but wont keep running without starting fluid main problem was the crank sensor had burnt wire. Do you think i got my timing off?? Would it keep running with starting fluid if that was the case??
#2
09-05-2017
Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
From: Lake Worth
Hi RonB, sorry to hear about your issues.
I would like to know more about this burnt crank sensor wiring that you found burnt.
How did it get burnt was it just one wire or multiple wires fused together?
Did you trace the wire or wires back to the source and make sure the entire wiring harness is damage free?
How many miles on this truck.
Also please post some pictures of your engine bay so we can get an idea of the condition of this truck.
If the timing belt is off or ignition timing or both I doubt spraying more fuel would help with this.
Yet if you think the timing belt may be installed incorrectly just do a compression test. ( I doubt this is your problem )
Even if the timing belt is not your main problem or a problem at all it is a good idea to know you have good compression with a engine as old as yours.
But my initial concern is with the crank sensor wire being burnt.
I am thinking another circuit may be burnt shorted or open as well but has yet to be discovered.
Do you have a check engine light on or codes in the computer?
I would make sure to check every single fuse in the truck and under the hood has been checked with a test light or DVOM at both sides of the fuse.
Check each fuse even if the fuse in question has nothing to do with the problem.
I would like to know more about this burnt crank sensor wiring that you found burnt.
How did it get burnt was it just one wire or multiple wires fused together?
Did you trace the wire or wires back to the source and make sure the entire wiring harness is damage free?
How many miles on this truck.
Also please post some pictures of your engine bay so we can get an idea of the condition of this truck.
If the timing belt is off or ignition timing or both I doubt spraying more fuel would help with this.
Yet if you think the timing belt may be installed incorrectly just do a compression test. ( I doubt this is your problem )
Even if the timing belt is not your main problem or a problem at all it is a good idea to know you have good compression with a engine as old as yours.
But my initial concern is with the crank sensor wire being burnt.
I am thinking another circuit may be burnt shorted or open as well but has yet to be discovered.
Do you have a check engine light on or codes in the computer?
I would make sure to check every single fuse in the truck and under the hood has been checked with a test light or DVOM at both sides of the fuse.
Check each fuse even if the fuse in question has nothing to do with the problem.
#3
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
Hi RonB, sorry to hear about your issues.
I would like to know more about this burnt crank sensor wiring that you found burnt.
How did it get burnt was it just one wire or multiple wires fused together?
Did you trace the wire or wires back to the source and make sure the entire wiring harness is damage free?
How many miles on this truck.
Also please post some pictures of your engine bay so we can get an idea of the condition of this truck.
If the timing belt is off or ignition timing or both I doubt spraying more fuel would help with this.
Yet if you think the timing belt may be installed incorrectly just do a compression test. ( I doubt this is your problem )
Even if the timing belt is not your main problem or a problem at all it is a good idea to know you have good compression with a engine as old as yours.
But my initial concern is with the crank sensor wire being burnt.
I am thinking another circuit may be burnt shorted or open as well but has yet to be discovered.
Do you have a check engine light on or codes in the computer?
I would make sure to check every single fuse in the truck and under the hood has been checked with a test light or DVOM at both sides of the fuse.
Check each fuse even if the fuse in question has nothing to do with the problem.
I would like to know more about this burnt crank sensor wiring that you found burnt.
How did it get burnt was it just one wire or multiple wires fused together?
Did you trace the wire or wires back to the source and make sure the entire wiring harness is damage free?
How many miles on this truck.
Also please post some pictures of your engine bay so we can get an idea of the condition of this truck.
If the timing belt is off or ignition timing or both I doubt spraying more fuel would help with this.
Yet if you think the timing belt may be installed incorrectly just do a compression test. ( I doubt this is your problem )
Even if the timing belt is not your main problem or a problem at all it is a good idea to know you have good compression with a engine as old as yours.
But my initial concern is with the crank sensor wire being burnt.
I am thinking another circuit may be burnt shorted or open as well but has yet to be discovered.
Do you have a check engine light on or codes in the computer?
I would make sure to check every single fuse in the truck and under the hood has been checked with a test light or DVOM at both sides of the fuse.
Check each fuse even if the fuse in question has nothing to do with the problem.
#4
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
Hi RonB, sorry to hear about your issues.
I would like to know more about this burnt crank sensor wiring that you found burnt.
How did it get burnt was it just one wire or multiple wires fused together?
Im going t
Did you trace the wire or wires back to the source and make sure the entire wiring harness is damage free?
How many miles on this truck.
Also please post some pictures of your engine bay so we can get an idea of the condition of this truck.
If the timing belt is off or ignition timing or both I doubt spraying more fuel would help with this.
Yet if you think the timing belt may be installed incorrectly just do a compression test. ( I doubt this is your problem )
Even if the timing belt is not your main problem or a problem at all it is a good idea to know you have good compression with a engine as old as yours.
But my initial concern is with the crank sensor wire being burnt.
I am thinking another circuit may be burnt shorted or open as well but has yet to be discovered.
Do you have a check engine light on or codes in the computer?
I would make sure to check every single fuse in the truck and under the hood has been checked with a test light or DVOM at both sides of the fuse.
Check each fuse even if the fuse in question has nothing to do with the problem.
I would like to know more about this burnt crank sensor wiring that you found burnt.
How did it get burnt was it just one wire or multiple wires fused together?
Im going t
Did you trace the wire or wires back to the source and make sure the entire wiring harness is damage free?
How many miles on this truck.
Also please post some pictures of your engine bay so we can get an idea of the condition of this truck.
If the timing belt is off or ignition timing or both I doubt spraying more fuel would help with this.
Yet if you think the timing belt may be installed incorrectly just do a compression test. ( I doubt this is your problem )
Even if the timing belt is not your main problem or a problem at all it is a good idea to know you have good compression with a engine as old as yours.
But my initial concern is with the crank sensor wire being burnt.
I am thinking another circuit may be burnt shorted or open as well but has yet to be discovered.
Do you have a check engine light on or codes in the computer?
I would make sure to check every single fuse in the truck and under the hood has been checked with a test light or DVOM at both sides of the fuse.
Check each fuse even if the fuse in question has nothing to do with the problem.
it has 140 thousand miles on it it was the center wire that was burnt. Fuses are good and im getting codes fuel pump relay and ground codes 556 and 542 fuel pump never shuts off and yes check engine light is on . The truck just died on her at a redlight . All grounds are good on fender well and on pcm
#7
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
Hi RonB, sorry to hear about your issues.
I would like to know more about this burnt crank sensor wiring that you found burnt.
How did it get burnt was it just one wire or multiple wires fused together?
I have no idea how to put pic up here
Did you trace the wire or wires back to the source and make sure the entire wiring harness is damage free?
How many miles on this truck.
Also please post some pictures of your engine bay so we can get an idea of the condition of this truck.
If the timing belt is off or ignition timing or both I doubt spraying more fuel would help with this.
Yet if you think the timing belt may be installed incorrectly just do a compression test. ( I doubt this is your problem )
Even if the timing belt is not your main problem or a problem at all it is a good idea to know you have good compression with a engine as old as yours.
But my initial concern is with the crank sensor wire being burnt.
I am thinking another circuit may be burnt shorted or open as well but has yet to be discovered.
Do you have a check engine light on or codes in the computer?
I would make sure to check every single fuse in the truck and under the hood has been checked with a test light or DVOM at both sides of the fuse.
Check each fuse even if the fuse in question has nothing to do with the problem.
I would like to know more about this burnt crank sensor wiring that you found burnt.
How did it get burnt was it just one wire or multiple wires fused together?
I have no idea how to put pic up here
Did you trace the wire or wires back to the source and make sure the entire wiring harness is damage free?
How many miles on this truck.
Also please post some pictures of your engine bay so we can get an idea of the condition of this truck.
If the timing belt is off or ignition timing or both I doubt spraying more fuel would help with this.
Yet if you think the timing belt may be installed incorrectly just do a compression test. ( I doubt this is your problem )
Even if the timing belt is not your main problem or a problem at all it is a good idea to know you have good compression with a engine as old as yours.
But my initial concern is with the crank sensor wire being burnt.
I am thinking another circuit may be burnt shorted or open as well but has yet to be discovered.
Do you have a check engine light on or codes in the computer?
I would make sure to check every single fuse in the truck and under the hood has been checked with a test light or DVOM at both sides of the fuse.
Check each fuse even if the fuse in question has nothing to do with the problem.
#8
09-05-2017
Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 587
Likes: 4
From: Evansville, Indiana
Hello there, RonB! In the message box you will see some icons. The square with yellow that looks like mountains and a sun is the icon you will need to use. The pic(s) you want to post must be hosted on an image site (imgur.com works well). Once the files are hosted on the image site, you can click the above mentioned icon and paste the picture's URL address and you should be good to go! HTH
#9
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
Ok i figured out why pump kept running. Someone jumpered a ground wire from body to fuse box to pump relay so i unhooked it and pump comes on for sec and shuts off as normal. Now i get no codes only system clear. But still will not run on own.. when I installed the timing belt are all three marks lined up as they should and the crank was 10° before top dead center. Is it possible I wasn't on compression stroke when I timed it ? Would all the marks still have lined up??
#10
09-05-2017
1. spark
2. fuel
3. compression
These are the 3 things needed for a gasoline engine to start and run, that's as simple and as complicated as it gets
Compression, if engine starts then you have enough compression, if engine runs but is under powered then you could have low compression
Compression is mechanical, so Black and White, you either got it or you don't
Spark, if engine starts, even if you have to add starting fluid, then you have spark and at the right time
Fuel, if engine starts and then dies, or only starts with starting fluid then you have a fuel delivery problem
Fuel injection needs Fuel Pressure, in 1994 that pressure should be 30-40psi at the injectors.
On the engine's Fuel Rail there will be a Test Port for pressure, looks like a Tire's air valve, because that is what it is, a schrader valve, and works the same way, press down on center pin to release pressure.
You can hook up a pressure gauge to get exact pressure or you can BE CAREFUL and push down on the pin to see if there is pressure.
Fuel injection systems should hold pressure for many MONTHS, not minutes, hours, or days, MONTH AND MONTHS
So if you are losing pressure then engine may start and then die.
4 things hold pressure in the fuel system
Fuel lines of course, but you would usually smell the gasoline if it was leaking out
Fuel Pump has a Check Valve built-in, a back flow preventer, so when pump is off fuel can not travel back into the tank thru the pump
Fuel injectors, these can leak, they get dirt inside and can't close all the way, but this would usually cause a big puff of grey/black smoke from the tail pipe on start up as all the leak fuel would be burned at once.
Fuel Pressure Regulator(FPR), located on the fuel rail, it has Fuel Return line and a Vacuum hose attached.
It has a spring valve inside, set for about 42psi, if pressure gets to 43psi then valve is pushed open and lets fuel flow back to the gas tank.
While engine is running the vacuum hose helps pull open this spring valve, this sets running pressure at about 35psi.
You can remove the Return fuel line from FPR, then turn on the key, and turn it off, no gas should come out of FPR, unless pressure in fuel rail is above 43psi.
If gas comes out replace FPR
2. fuel
3. compression
These are the 3 things needed for a gasoline engine to start and run, that's as simple and as complicated as it gets
Compression, if engine starts then you have enough compression, if engine runs but is under powered then you could have low compression
Compression is mechanical, so Black and White, you either got it or you don't
Spark, if engine starts, even if you have to add starting fluid, then you have spark and at the right time
Fuel, if engine starts and then dies, or only starts with starting fluid then you have a fuel delivery problem
Fuel injection needs Fuel Pressure, in 1994 that pressure should be 30-40psi at the injectors.
On the engine's Fuel Rail there will be a Test Port for pressure, looks like a Tire's air valve, because that is what it is, a schrader valve, and works the same way, press down on center pin to release pressure.
You can hook up a pressure gauge to get exact pressure or you can BE CAREFUL and push down on the pin to see if there is pressure.
Fuel injection systems should hold pressure for many MONTHS, not minutes, hours, or days, MONTH AND MONTHS
So if you are losing pressure then engine may start and then die.
4 things hold pressure in the fuel system
Fuel lines of course, but you would usually smell the gasoline if it was leaking out
Fuel Pump has a Check Valve built-in, a back flow preventer, so when pump is off fuel can not travel back into the tank thru the pump
Fuel injectors, these can leak, they get dirt inside and can't close all the way, but this would usually cause a big puff of grey/black smoke from the tail pipe on start up as all the leak fuel would be burned at once.
Fuel Pressure Regulator(FPR), located on the fuel rail, it has Fuel Return line and a Vacuum hose attached.
It has a spring valve inside, set for about 42psi, if pressure gets to 43psi then valve is pushed open and lets fuel flow back to the gas tank.
While engine is running the vacuum hose helps pull open this spring valve, this sets running pressure at about 35psi.
You can remove the Return fuel line from FPR, then turn on the key, and turn it off, no gas should come out of FPR, unless pressure in fuel rail is above 43psi.
If gas comes out replace FPR
#11
09-05-2017
Ok i figured out why pump kept running. Someone jumpered a ground wire from body to fuse box to pump relay so i unhooked it and pump comes on for sec and shuts off as normal. Now i get no codes only system clear. But still will not run on own.. when I installed the timing belt are all three marks lined up as they should and the crank was 10° before top dead center. Is it possible I wasn't on compression stroke when I timed it ? Would all the marks still have lined up??
So if you lined up the Triangles(Cam), Diamonds(AUX) and crank was at #1 TDC then all is well
Engine won't start without good compression
#12
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
Hello there, RonB! In the message box you will see some icons. The square with yellow that looks like mountains and a sun is the icon you will need to use. The pic(s) you want to post must be hosted on an image site (imgur.com works well). Once the files are hosted on the image site, you can click the above mentioned icon and paste the picture's URL address and you should be good to go! HTH
#13
09-05-2017
Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
From: Lake Worth
Since you have wiring issues either current or past and evidence of people monkeying around with the wiring we will have to consider this problem a cranks but does not start problem.
Wipe your mind from anything you think may or may not be causing the problem and shake off the negative feelings you may have for your truck.
Once your not ready to beat the truck with a sledge hammer like I would be by now, we need to gather information.
We should start with basic diagnostics, first since the truck runs with a secondary fuel source I would get a fuel pressure tester and test the pressure with the key on engine off write the number down, then test the pressure with the engine cranking.
If the truck starts then stalls while testing fuel pressure while cranking that is ok we are looking for consistent fuel pressure and the correct fuel pressure.
The fuel pressure you come up with should stay constant even with the key off.
If you can keep the truck running with the secondary fuel take note of the fuel pressure while it is running as well if the pressure drops off we will have to diagnose the fuel delivery system.
Problems can range from a bad fuel pump, bad pressure regulator, bad internal leak where the pump connects to the fuel rail and even bad injectors but unlikely the injectors are the issue.
There is a lot more I can post but let's start with these simple test and see what we got.
Keep in mind I have been and will be busy getting ready to get my *** handed to me from Hurricane Irma ( what a bitch she is )
I am hoping other knowledgeable members here will step in and help you out as well so you can get your truck back on the road.
As far as your timing belt, it is easy to get the best misaligned if you do not get the slack out of the non tensioner side of the belt before you release the tensioner then tighten it down.
I always like to rotate the engine over a few times to confirm the marks align again and the belt is still at the correct tension.
Did you double check your work this way or slam it back together after you put the belt on?
Again I doubt this is your problem but it will be good to know the job was done right.
As far as where the marks line up or if it has to be at 15 degrees or not I wouldn't know since I do not have a manual for your truck and do not remember things like that for each vehicle.
So I have to rely on you going by a factory service manual and not by YouTube university.
I will say this thread reminds me of another truck that had a similar owner change all kind of parts then tow his truck to my shop.
After listening to the story I simply crawled under the truck tapped on the gas tank, laughed and told him he was out of fuel.
He showed me the old parts and he did have some obviously bad parts that would keep the truck from running but during diagnostics he was running on fumes and ran out of fuel without knowing because his fuel gauge must have quit working that very weak.
So make sure you have fuel in the tank before you do too much more to this truck. You never know LOL you could get lucky well lucky after the fact.
Btw I would still like to know what happened to the burnt wire? I have yet to see that happen unless somehow the sensor shorted out and I have never seen that happen.
I guess it could happen if the truck was in a accident or some sort of physical damage happened to the sensor .
Anyways let us know all you can about this truck especially if your fuel pressure is good and you have fuel in the truck.
The more information you provide the better chances we have to help.
Btw in regards to the compression and timing belt, I had a very old Chevy caprice that ran like crap, I had to use it until my truck I was rebuilding was rebuilt.
The v8 305 engine had two cylinders with burnt valves and low to no compression, I had to get this car to pass emissions inspection.
The way it was running the HC was off the chart high, I found out by giving the engine more fuel and playing with the ignition timing I was able to get the HC down to around 1200 PPM yet this is with the idle mixture screws backed all the way out. LOL the carb at idle had no more fuel to give.
Yet if I introduced more secondary fuel and air to the mixture the car ran smooth and the HC and other readings started to come around.
So I connected a vacuum line to the vapor line that went to the charcoal canister that came from the tank with a tee fitting I connected the other line to the PCV hose and the third line I just connected a in line valve.
I used the valve to regulate the added secondary fuel vapor source and air source to dial in the emissions HC reading to well below 400 the state maximum for that car at the time.
The only side effect was the gas tank whistled from the gas cap. LOL
My point to this is do not discount the timing belt being off just yet.
Adding secondary fuel to a engine with low compression can effect the way it runs.
However there is no reason to take the timing cover off until basic diagnostics show you have to.
So please even if you get the truck running pull a compression test. It is easy and I think a fun test to do plus gives you a bench mark for your engine for future diagnostics.
Wipe your mind from anything you think may or may not be causing the problem and shake off the negative feelings you may have for your truck.
Once your not ready to beat the truck with a sledge hammer like I would be by now, we need to gather information.
We should start with basic diagnostics, first since the truck runs with a secondary fuel source I would get a fuel pressure tester and test the pressure with the key on engine off write the number down, then test the pressure with the engine cranking.
If the truck starts then stalls while testing fuel pressure while cranking that is ok we are looking for consistent fuel pressure and the correct fuel pressure.
The fuel pressure you come up with should stay constant even with the key off.
If you can keep the truck running with the secondary fuel take note of the fuel pressure while it is running as well if the pressure drops off we will have to diagnose the fuel delivery system.
Problems can range from a bad fuel pump, bad pressure regulator, bad internal leak where the pump connects to the fuel rail and even bad injectors but unlikely the injectors are the issue.
There is a lot more I can post but let's start with these simple test and see what we got.
Keep in mind I have been and will be busy getting ready to get my *** handed to me from Hurricane Irma ( what a bitch she is )
I am hoping other knowledgeable members here will step in and help you out as well so you can get your truck back on the road.
As far as your timing belt, it is easy to get the best misaligned if you do not get the slack out of the non tensioner side of the belt before you release the tensioner then tighten it down.
I always like to rotate the engine over a few times to confirm the marks align again and the belt is still at the correct tension.
Did you double check your work this way or slam it back together after you put the belt on?
Again I doubt this is your problem but it will be good to know the job was done right.
As far as where the marks line up or if it has to be at 15 degrees or not I wouldn't know since I do not have a manual for your truck and do not remember things like that for each vehicle.
So I have to rely on you going by a factory service manual and not by YouTube university.
I will say this thread reminds me of another truck that had a similar owner change all kind of parts then tow his truck to my shop.
After listening to the story I simply crawled under the truck tapped on the gas tank, laughed and told him he was out of fuel.
He showed me the old parts and he did have some obviously bad parts that would keep the truck from running but during diagnostics he was running on fumes and ran out of fuel without knowing because his fuel gauge must have quit working that very weak.
So make sure you have fuel in the tank before you do too much more to this truck. You never know LOL you could get lucky well lucky after the fact.
Btw I would still like to know what happened to the burnt wire? I have yet to see that happen unless somehow the sensor shorted out and I have never seen that happen.
I guess it could happen if the truck was in a accident or some sort of physical damage happened to the sensor .
Anyways let us know all you can about this truck especially if your fuel pressure is good and you have fuel in the truck.
The more information you provide the better chances we have to help.
Btw in regards to the compression and timing belt, I had a very old Chevy caprice that ran like crap, I had to use it until my truck I was rebuilding was rebuilt.
The v8 305 engine had two cylinders with burnt valves and low to no compression, I had to get this car to pass emissions inspection.
The way it was running the HC was off the chart high, I found out by giving the engine more fuel and playing with the ignition timing I was able to get the HC down to around 1200 PPM yet this is with the idle mixture screws backed all the way out. LOL the carb at idle had no more fuel to give.
Yet if I introduced more secondary fuel and air to the mixture the car ran smooth and the HC and other readings started to come around.
So I connected a vacuum line to the vapor line that went to the charcoal canister that came from the tank with a tee fitting I connected the other line to the PCV hose and the third line I just connected a in line valve.
I used the valve to regulate the added secondary fuel vapor source and air source to dial in the emissions HC reading to well below 400 the state maximum for that car at the time.
The only side effect was the gas tank whistled from the gas cap. LOL
My point to this is do not discount the timing belt being off just yet.
Adding secondary fuel to a engine with low compression can effect the way it runs.
However there is no reason to take the timing cover off until basic diagnostics show you have to.
So please even if you get the truck running pull a compression test. It is easy and I think a fun test to do plus gives you a bench mark for your engine for future diagnostics.
#14
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
Update
Ok
ok update i found 1 injector not pulsating. Would that keep her from running?? And btw new fuel pump too
Since you have wiring issues either current or past and evidence of people monkeying around with the wiring we will have to consider this problem a cranks but does not start problem.
Wipe your mind from anything you think may or may not be causing the problem and shake off the negative feelings you may have for your truck.
Once your not ready to beat the truck with a sledge hammer like I would be by now, we need to gather information.
We should start with basic diagnostics, first since the truck runs with a secondary fuel source I would get a fuel pressure tester and test the pressure with the key on engine off write the number down, then test the pressure with the engine cranking.
If the truck starts then stalls while testing fuel pressure while cranking that is ok we are looking for consistent fuel pressure and the correct fuel pressure.
The fuel pressure you come up with should stay constant even with the key off.
If you can keep the truck running with the secondary fuel take note of the fuel pressure while it is running as well if the pressure drops off we will have to diagnose the fuel delivery system.
Problems can range from a bad fuel pump, bad pressure regulator, bad internal leak where the pump connects to the fuel rail and even bad injectors but unlikely the injectors are the issue.
There is a lot more I can post but let's start with these simple test and see what we got.
Keep in mind I have been and will be busy getting ready to get my *** handed to me from Hurricane Irma ( what a bitch she is )
I am hoping other knowledgeable members here will step in and help you out as well so you can get your truck back on the road.
As far as your timing belt, it is easy to get the best misaligned if you do not get the slack out of the non tensioner side of the belt before you release the tensioner then tighten it down.
I always like to rotate the engine over a few times to confirm the marks align again and the belt is still at the correct tension.
Did you double check your work this way or slam it back together after you put the belt on?
Again I doubt this is your problem but it will be good to know the job was done right.
As far as where the marks line up or if it has to be at 15 degrees or not I wouldn't know since I do not have a manual for your truck and do not remember things like that for each vehicle.
So I have to rely on you going by a factory service manual and not by YouTube university.
I will say this thread reminds me of another truck that had a similar owner change all kind of parts then tow his truck to my shop.
After listening to the story I simply crawled under the truck tapped on the gas tank, laughed and told him he was out of fuel.
He showed me the old parts and he did have some obviously bad parts that would keep the truck from running but during diagnostics he was running on fumes and ran out of fuel without knowing because his fuel gauge must have quit working that very weak.
So make sure you have fuel in the tank before you do too much more to this truck. You never know LOL you could get lucky well lucky after the fact.
Btw I would still like to know what happened to the burnt wire? I have yet to see that happen unless somehow the sensor shorted out and I have never seen that happen.
I guess it could happen if the truck was in a accident or some sort of physical damage happened to the sensor .
Anyways let us know all you can about this truck especially if your fuel pressure is good and you have fuel in the truck.
The more information you provide the better chances we have to help.
Btw in regards to the compression and timing belt, I had a very old Chevy caprice that ran like crap, I had to use it until my truck I was rebuilding was rebuilt.
The v8 305 engine had two cylinders with burnt valves and low to no compression, I had to get this car to pass emissions inspection.
The way it was running the HC was off the chart high, I found out by giving the engine more fuel and playing with the ignition timing I was able to get the HC down to around 1200 PPM yet this is with the idle mixture screws backed all the way out. LOL the carb at idle had no more fuel to give.
Yet if I introduced more secondary fuel and air to the mixture the car ran smooth and the HC and other readings started to come around.
So I connected a vacuum line to the vapor line that went to the charcoal canister that came from the tank with a tee fitting I connected the other line to the PCV hose and the third line I just connected a in line valve.
I used the valve to regulate the added secondary fuel vapor source and air source to dial in the emissions HC reading to well below 400 the state maximum for that car at the time.
The only side effect was the gas tank whistled from the gas cap. LOL
My point to this is do not discount the timing belt being off just yet.
Adding secondary fuel to a engine with low compression can effect the way it runs.
However there is no reason to take the timing cover off until basic diagnostics show you have to.
So please even if you get the truck running pull a compression test. It is easy and I think a fun test to do plus gives you a bench mark for your engine for future diagnostics.
Wipe your mind from anything you think may or may not be causing the problem and shake off the negative feelings you may have for your truck.
Once your not ready to beat the truck with a sledge hammer like I would be by now, we need to gather information.
We should start with basic diagnostics, first since the truck runs with a secondary fuel source I would get a fuel pressure tester and test the pressure with the key on engine off write the number down, then test the pressure with the engine cranking.
If the truck starts then stalls while testing fuel pressure while cranking that is ok we are looking for consistent fuel pressure and the correct fuel pressure.
The fuel pressure you come up with should stay constant even with the key off.
If you can keep the truck running with the secondary fuel take note of the fuel pressure while it is running as well if the pressure drops off we will have to diagnose the fuel delivery system.
Problems can range from a bad fuel pump, bad pressure regulator, bad internal leak where the pump connects to the fuel rail and even bad injectors but unlikely the injectors are the issue.
There is a lot more I can post but let's start with these simple test and see what we got.
Keep in mind I have been and will be busy getting ready to get my *** handed to me from Hurricane Irma ( what a bitch she is )
I am hoping other knowledgeable members here will step in and help you out as well so you can get your truck back on the road.
As far as your timing belt, it is easy to get the best misaligned if you do not get the slack out of the non tensioner side of the belt before you release the tensioner then tighten it down.
I always like to rotate the engine over a few times to confirm the marks align again and the belt is still at the correct tension.
Did you double check your work this way or slam it back together after you put the belt on?
Again I doubt this is your problem but it will be good to know the job was done right.
As far as where the marks line up or if it has to be at 15 degrees or not I wouldn't know since I do not have a manual for your truck and do not remember things like that for each vehicle.
So I have to rely on you going by a factory service manual and not by YouTube university.
I will say this thread reminds me of another truck that had a similar owner change all kind of parts then tow his truck to my shop.
After listening to the story I simply crawled under the truck tapped on the gas tank, laughed and told him he was out of fuel.
He showed me the old parts and he did have some obviously bad parts that would keep the truck from running but during diagnostics he was running on fumes and ran out of fuel without knowing because his fuel gauge must have quit working that very weak.
So make sure you have fuel in the tank before you do too much more to this truck. You never know LOL you could get lucky well lucky after the fact.
Btw I would still like to know what happened to the burnt wire? I have yet to see that happen unless somehow the sensor shorted out and I have never seen that happen.
I guess it could happen if the truck was in a accident or some sort of physical damage happened to the sensor .
Anyways let us know all you can about this truck especially if your fuel pressure is good and you have fuel in the truck.
The more information you provide the better chances we have to help.
Btw in regards to the compression and timing belt, I had a very old Chevy caprice that ran like crap, I had to use it until my truck I was rebuilding was rebuilt.
The v8 305 engine had two cylinders with burnt valves and low to no compression, I had to get this car to pass emissions inspection.
The way it was running the HC was off the chart high, I found out by giving the engine more fuel and playing with the ignition timing I was able to get the HC down to around 1200 PPM yet this is with the idle mixture screws backed all the way out. LOL the carb at idle had no more fuel to give.
Yet if I introduced more secondary fuel and air to the mixture the car ran smooth and the HC and other readings started to come around.
So I connected a vacuum line to the vapor line that went to the charcoal canister that came from the tank with a tee fitting I connected the other line to the PCV hose and the third line I just connected a in line valve.
I used the valve to regulate the added secondary fuel vapor source and air source to dial in the emissions HC reading to well below 400 the state maximum for that car at the time.
The only side effect was the gas tank whistled from the gas cap. LOL
My point to this is do not discount the timing belt being off just yet.
Adding secondary fuel to a engine with low compression can effect the way it runs.
However there is no reason to take the timing cover off until basic diagnostics show you have to.
So please even if you get the truck running pull a compression test. It is easy and I think a fun test to do plus gives you a bench mark for your engine for future diagnostics.
#15
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
I feel ya i just went through harvey tks
Since you have wiring issues either current or past and evidence of people monkeying around with the wiring we will have to consider this problem a cranks but does not start problem.
Wipe your mind from anything you think may or may not be causing the problem and shake off the negative feelings you may have for your truck.
Once your not ready to beat the truck with a sledge hammer like I would be by now, we need to gather information.
We should start with basic diagnostics, first since the truck runs with a secondary fuel source I would get a fuel pressure tester and test the pressure with the key on engine off write the number down, then test the pressure with the engine cranking.
If the truck starts then stalls while testing fuel pressure while cranking that is ok we are looking for consistent fuel pressure and the correct fuel pressure.
The fuel pressure you come up with should stay constant even with the key off.
If you can keep the truck running with the secondary fuel take note of the fuel pressure while it is running as well if the pressure drops off we will have to diagnose the fuel delivery system.
Problems can range from a bad fuel pump, bad pressure regulator, bad internal leak where the pump connects to the fuel rail and even bad injectors but unlikely the injectors are the issue.
There is a lot more I can post but let's start with these simple test and see what we got.
Keep in mind I have been and will be busy getting ready to get my *** handed to me from Hurricane Irma ( what a bitch she is )
I am hoping other knowledgeable members here will step in and help you out as well so you can get your truck back on the road.
As far as your timing belt, it is easy to get the best misaligned if you do not get the slack out of the non tensioner side of the belt before you release the tensioner then tighten it down.
I always like to rotate the engine over a few times to confirm the marks align again and the belt is still at the correct tension.
Did you double check your work this way or slam it back together after you put the belt on?
Again I doubt this is your problem but it will be good to know the job was done right.
As far as where the marks line up or if it has to be at 15 degrees or not I wouldn't know since I do not have a manual for your truck and do not remember things like that for each vehicle.
So I have to rely on you going by a factory service manual and not by YouTube university.
I will say this thread reminds me of another truck that had a similar owner change all kind of parts then tow his truck to my shop.
After listening to the story I simply crawled under the truck tapped on the gas tank, laughed and told him he was out of fuel.
He showed me the old parts and he did have some obviously bad parts that would keep the truck from running but during diagnostics he was running on fumes and ran out of fuel without knowing because his fuel gauge must have quit working that very weak.
So make sure you have fuel in the tank before you do too much more to this truck. You never know LOL you could get lucky well lucky after the fact.
Btw I would still like to know what happened to the burnt wire? I have yet to see that happen unless somehow the sensor shorted out and I have never seen that happen.
I guess it could happen if the truck was in a accident or some sort of physical damage happened to the sensor .
Anyways let us know all you can about this truck especially if your fuel pressure is good and you have fuel in the truck.
The more information you provide the better chances we have to help.
Btw in regards to the compression and timing belt, I had a very old Chevy caprice that ran like crap, I had to use it until my truck I was rebuilding was rebuilt.
The v8 305 engine had two cylinders with burnt valves and low to no compression, I had to get this car to pass emissions inspection.
The way it was running the HC was off the chart high, I found out by giving the engine more fuel and playing with the ignition timing I was able to get the HC down to around 1200 PPM yet this is with the idle mixture screws backed all the way out. LOL the carb at idle had no more fuel to give.
Yet if I introduced more secondary fuel and air to the mixture the car ran smooth and the HC and other readings started to come around.
So I connected a vacuum line to the vapor line that went to the charcoal canister that came from the tank with a tee fitting I connected the other line to the PCV hose and the third line I just connected a in line valve.
I used the valve to regulate the added secondary fuel vapor source and air source to dial in the emissions HC reading to well below 400 the state maximum for that car at the time.
The only side effect was the gas tank whistled from the gas cap. LOL
My point to this is do not discount the timing belt being off just yet.
Adding secondary fuel to a engine with low compression can effect the way it runs.
However there is no reason to take the timing cover off until basic diagnostics show you have to.
So please even if you get the truck running pull a compression test. It is easy and I think a fun test to do plus gives you a bench mark for your engine for future diagnostics.
Wipe your mind from anything you think may or may not be causing the problem and shake off the negative feelings you may have for your truck.
Once your not ready to beat the truck with a sledge hammer like I would be by now, we need to gather information.
We should start with basic diagnostics, first since the truck runs with a secondary fuel source I would get a fuel pressure tester and test the pressure with the key on engine off write the number down, then test the pressure with the engine cranking.
If the truck starts then stalls while testing fuel pressure while cranking that is ok we are looking for consistent fuel pressure and the correct fuel pressure.
The fuel pressure you come up with should stay constant even with the key off.
If you can keep the truck running with the secondary fuel take note of the fuel pressure while it is running as well if the pressure drops off we will have to diagnose the fuel delivery system.
Problems can range from a bad fuel pump, bad pressure regulator, bad internal leak where the pump connects to the fuel rail and even bad injectors but unlikely the injectors are the issue.
There is a lot more I can post but let's start with these simple test and see what we got.
Keep in mind I have been and will be busy getting ready to get my *** handed to me from Hurricane Irma ( what a bitch she is )
I am hoping other knowledgeable members here will step in and help you out as well so you can get your truck back on the road.
As far as your timing belt, it is easy to get the best misaligned if you do not get the slack out of the non tensioner side of the belt before you release the tensioner then tighten it down.
I always like to rotate the engine over a few times to confirm the marks align again and the belt is still at the correct tension.
Did you double check your work this way or slam it back together after you put the belt on?
Again I doubt this is your problem but it will be good to know the job was done right.
As far as where the marks line up or if it has to be at 15 degrees or not I wouldn't know since I do not have a manual for your truck and do not remember things like that for each vehicle.
So I have to rely on you going by a factory service manual and not by YouTube university.
I will say this thread reminds me of another truck that had a similar owner change all kind of parts then tow his truck to my shop.
After listening to the story I simply crawled under the truck tapped on the gas tank, laughed and told him he was out of fuel.
He showed me the old parts and he did have some obviously bad parts that would keep the truck from running but during diagnostics he was running on fumes and ran out of fuel without knowing because his fuel gauge must have quit working that very weak.
So make sure you have fuel in the tank before you do too much more to this truck. You never know LOL you could get lucky well lucky after the fact.
Btw I would still like to know what happened to the burnt wire? I have yet to see that happen unless somehow the sensor shorted out and I have never seen that happen.
I guess it could happen if the truck was in a accident or some sort of physical damage happened to the sensor .
Anyways let us know all you can about this truck especially if your fuel pressure is good and you have fuel in the truck.
The more information you provide the better chances we have to help.
Btw in regards to the compression and timing belt, I had a very old Chevy caprice that ran like crap, I had to use it until my truck I was rebuilding was rebuilt.
The v8 305 engine had two cylinders with burnt valves and low to no compression, I had to get this car to pass emissions inspection.
The way it was running the HC was off the chart high, I found out by giving the engine more fuel and playing with the ignition timing I was able to get the HC down to around 1200 PPM yet this is with the idle mixture screws backed all the way out. LOL the carb at idle had no more fuel to give.
Yet if I introduced more secondary fuel and air to the mixture the car ran smooth and the HC and other readings started to come around.
So I connected a vacuum line to the vapor line that went to the charcoal canister that came from the tank with a tee fitting I connected the other line to the PCV hose and the third line I just connected a in line valve.
I used the valve to regulate the added secondary fuel vapor source and air source to dial in the emissions HC reading to well below 400 the state maximum for that car at the time.
The only side effect was the gas tank whistled from the gas cap. LOL
My point to this is do not discount the timing belt being off just yet.
Adding secondary fuel to a engine with low compression can effect the way it runs.
However there is no reason to take the timing cover off until basic diagnostics show you have to.
So please even if you get the truck running pull a compression test. It is easy and I think a fun test to do plus gives you a bench mark for your engine for future diagnostics.
#16
09-05-2017
Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 587
Likes: 4
From: Evansville, Indiana
Well, not sure what color it is on YOUR screen, but on mine it is a light yellow and gray. Anyway, open the album you created on imgur.com. Click the picture you want to upload. You will then see six buttons that say "Copy" on the right. Click the copy button for the one that says "Direct Link". Now, back in the forum, click the "Insert Image" button and paste the URL into it that you copied from imgur.com. Type in anything you need to say and click the "Submit Reply" button at the bottom. See how that works. HTH
#20
09-05-2017
Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
From: Lake Worth
And yes you need to diagnose the injector issue. But after you run the fuel pump test.
How are you testing the injector if your just listening to it that may not help with diagnostics.
A noid light would need to be connected to each injector plug one at a time and make sure each one flashes either while cranking or running.
If you have a flashing light and the injector is not clicking or making sound that one cylinder would not be working properly but it could be leaking fuel and contributing the helping the engine run.
Yet a leaking injector would show up on the fuel pressure test.
As RonD said this is simple so keep it simple and make our voluntary task of helping you that much easier by you performing basic diagnostics.
The new fuel pump you claim you have is a small part of the fuel delivery system
And very well could be defective ( new stands for never ever works sometimes )
#21
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
Cancel last update
Ok all 4 injectors have power and pulsating. I used test light. Double checked #4 and it is pulsating but I never did do the listen for clicking thing . The other pump I had I'm sure was good now it was running continuously because someone ran a groung wire to relay to it I don't have a pressure tester but I pry need to get one but I don't see both pumps being bad.yet
It honestly sounds like you have a few problems, like RonD and I mentioned you need to run a fuel pressure test.
And yes you need to diagnose the injector issue. But after you run the fuel pump test.
How are you testing the injector if your just listening to it that may not help with diagnostics.
A noid light would need to be connected to each injector plug one at a time and make sure each one flashes either while cranking or running.
If you have a flashing light and the injector is not clicking or making sound that one cylinder would not be working properly but it could be leaking fuel and contributing the helping the engine run.
Yet a leaking injector would show up on the fuel pressure test.
As RonD said this is simple so keep it simple and make our voluntary task of helping you that much easier by you performing basic diagnostics.
The new fuel pump you claim you have is a small part of the fuel delivery system
And very well could be defective ( new stands for never ever works sometimes )
And yes you need to diagnose the injector issue. But after you run the fuel pump test.
How are you testing the injector if your just listening to it that may not help with diagnostics.
A noid light would need to be connected to each injector plug one at a time and make sure each one flashes either while cranking or running.
If you have a flashing light and the injector is not clicking or making sound that one cylinder would not be working properly but it could be leaking fuel and contributing the helping the engine run.
Yet a leaking injector would show up on the fuel pressure test.
As RonD said this is simple so keep it simple and make our voluntary task of helping you that much easier by you performing basic diagnostics.
The new fuel pump you claim you have is a small part of the fuel delivery system
And very well could be defective ( new stands for never ever works sometimes )
#22
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
1. spark
2. fuel
3. compression
These are the 3 things needed for a gasoline engine to start and run, that's as simple and as complicated as it gets
Compression, if engine starts then you have enough compression, if engine runs but is under powered then you could have low compression
Compression is mechanical, so Black and White, you either got it or you don't
Spark, if engine starts, even if you have to add starting fluid, then you have spark and at the right time
Fuel, if engine starts and then dies, or only starts with starting fluid then you have a fuel delivery problem
Fuel injection needs Fuel Pressure, in 1994 that pressure should be 30-40psi at the injectors.
On the engine's Fuel Rail there will be a Test Port for pressure, looks like a Tire's air valve, because that is what it is, a schrader valve, and works the same way, press down on center pin to release pressure.
You can hook up a pressure gauge to get exact pressure or you can BE CAREFUL and push down on the pin to see if there is pressure.
Fuel injection systems should hold pressure for many MONTHS, not minutes, hours, or days, MONTH AND MONTHS
So if you are losing pressure then engine may start and then die.
4 things hold pressure in the fuel system
Fuel lines of course, but you would usually smell the gasoline if it was leaking out
Fuel Pump has a Check Valve built-in, a back flow preventer, so when pump is off fuel can not travel back into the tank thru the pump
Fuel injectors, these can leak, they get dirt inside and can't close all the way, but this would usually cause a big puff of grey/black smoke from the tail pipe on start up as all the leak fuel would be burned at once.
Fuel Pressure Regulator(FPR), located on the fuel rail, it has Fuel Return line and a Vacuum hose attached.
It has a spring valve inside, set for about 42psi, if pressure gets to 43psi then valve is pushed open and lets fuel flow back to the gas tank.
While engine is running the vacuum hose helps pull open this spring valve, this sets running pressure at about 35psi.
You can remove the Return fuel line from FPR, then turn on the key, and turn it off, no gas should come out of FPR, unless pressure in fuel rail is above 43psi.
If gas comes out replace FPR
2. fuel
3. compression
These are the 3 things needed for a gasoline engine to start and run, that's as simple and as complicated as it gets
Compression, if engine starts then you have enough compression, if engine runs but is under powered then you could have low compression
Compression is mechanical, so Black and White, you either got it or you don't
Spark, if engine starts, even if you have to add starting fluid, then you have spark and at the right time
Fuel, if engine starts and then dies, or only starts with starting fluid then you have a fuel delivery problem
Fuel injection needs Fuel Pressure, in 1994 that pressure should be 30-40psi at the injectors.
On the engine's Fuel Rail there will be a Test Port for pressure, looks like a Tire's air valve, because that is what it is, a schrader valve, and works the same way, press down on center pin to release pressure.
You can hook up a pressure gauge to get exact pressure or you can BE CAREFUL and push down on the pin to see if there is pressure.
Fuel injection systems should hold pressure for many MONTHS, not minutes, hours, or days, MONTH AND MONTHS
So if you are losing pressure then engine may start and then die.
4 things hold pressure in the fuel system
Fuel lines of course, but you would usually smell the gasoline if it was leaking out
Fuel Pump has a Check Valve built-in, a back flow preventer, so when pump is off fuel can not travel back into the tank thru the pump
Fuel injectors, these can leak, they get dirt inside and can't close all the way, but this would usually cause a big puff of grey/black smoke from the tail pipe on start up as all the leak fuel would be burned at once.
Fuel Pressure Regulator(FPR), located on the fuel rail, it has Fuel Return line and a Vacuum hose attached.
It has a spring valve inside, set for about 42psi, if pressure gets to 43psi then valve is pushed open and lets fuel flow back to the gas tank.
While engine is running the vacuum hose helps pull open this spring valve, this sets running pressure at about 35psi.
You can remove the Return fuel line from FPR, then turn on the key, and turn it off, no gas should come out of FPR, unless pressure in fuel rail is above 43psi.
If gas comes out replace FPR
#24
09-05-2017
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland texas
i'm just wondering I don't have the serpentine belt on I don't need to have it on for the motor to run do I since it does run on starting fluid.battery has over 12 V that looks all good
#25
09-05-2017
Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
From: Lake Worth
The diagnostic tools you need can be picked up as a loaner from most parts stores.
You get you money back as soon as you return the tool.
Again I am not too worried about the compression right now and I am sure if you followed directions with the timing belt from a manual the compression is fine, just test it one day if you can.
But you need to test the fuel pressure, with a fuel pressure gauge.
The battery needs to be good and fully charged telling us the battery is over 12 volts does not help us help you,the battery I just charged completely was at 12.85 volts what voltage was your battery at?
I think if it is below 12.70 volts it should be charged ( what threshold will causes a problem with the computer I couldn't tell you )
The belt does not need to be on to run but why leave it off since your done with the timing belt?
If you combine a weak battery and no charging system your begging for the computer to mess with you.
You get you money back as soon as you return the tool.
Again I am not too worried about the compression right now and I am sure if you followed directions with the timing belt from a manual the compression is fine, just test it one day if you can.
But you need to test the fuel pressure, with a fuel pressure gauge.
The battery needs to be good and fully charged telling us the battery is over 12 volts does not help us help you,the battery I just charged completely was at 12.85 volts what voltage was your battery at?
I think if it is below 12.70 volts it should be charged ( what threshold will causes a problem with the computer I couldn't tell you )
The belt does not need to be on to run but why leave it off since your done with the timing belt?
If you combine a weak battery and no charging system your begging for the computer to mess with you.
