Stalling 94 2.3L
#1
Stalling 94 2.3L
Let me just start by saying I apologize for the longish post and thank you to all those who make this site possible.
I never post to forums, however I am at my wits end, and this Forums posts have helped me immensely in the past. Especially RonD who gets a special shout out for their immense wealth of knowledge that has taught me more than a thing or two in my short time on this earth and as a shadetree/amateur mechanic.
I have a 1994 Ford Ranger 2.3L that I bought in the summer of 20. Longbed single cab, white. Love this little thing, but its always had problems that I have slowly taken care of since then. Its never left me stranded once despite it throwing codes and having a rough idle. It was my daily driver for 40-50 miles a day. For the past 10 months it hasn't been driven nearly as much, no problems were noticed other than the usual. That was until a week ago. It did sit for a week and a half before this, half tank of gas. Went to a job interview, it stalled out not even a mile from home. Sitting at a light. It also refused to start back up. It would sound like it would start to turn then just bog out and die. Managed to roll it into a parking lot and a random truck bro came by to see if he could help. Didn't know what I was looking for but we opened the throttle all the way and after 30 sec of rough sounds it managed to start up and stay stable. Thanked him and went back home. I turned it off and it started up fine. Couldn't replicate the problem other than another time driving around that night and stopping. Felt like it was bogging but I was able to counteract it by giving it more throttle.
Decided it was time to start going through my engine codes again and actually fix them as I assumed something just got so bad it gave out. I was throwing codes 223, 224 and 335. Ill keep this part short. Basically days later and many hours in research (especially this site) helped me fix the 335 by changing out a bad EGR pressure feedback sensor. the 223 and 224 were fixed by changing out a bad NAPA ignition control module that came on the truck when I got it. Also found my spark plugs were all gapped to .056 so I gaped them all back down to .044. Cleaned the IAC did the simple test on the TPS by unplugging when running. Both seemed fine. Checked all vacuum lines and gas lines, no cracks or hissing/leaking that I can find. None of these things fixed the issue but they did make the truck run better when it was driving around and now I have no check engine light lol.
Last night I decided to take a break from it and get a fresh brain. So I got no error codes and its still running like this. I assume I'm getting spark and enough air. Which leaves me with gas and compression. I'm leaning on gas because Ive always been able to smell gas on the driver side. Smells rich? I know what everyone is gonna say "STOP THROWING PARTS AT IT". Well I needed a Hail Mary so this morning I replaced the FPR thinking that might be my problem. Didn't seem to change anything. Idol sounds like it cant decide where to sit, like its adjusting itself up or down every few seconds. So I have no info to go off of other than to do a compression test and fuel pressure test, which Ive never done before. Decided to fill the tank to see if it would act differently, and you know what it did. Now it stalls every time I start it up. Barely got it home from the gas station around the corner. Had to keep the throttle going harder even at low speeds. Now I can barely start it and when I do it dies every time.
Im sure there is stuff I have forgot in this post. This has been a weeklong ordeal for me. Im a mere humble shadetree that has never been to a mechanic in my life. This might be the one that does me in. Any advice from those on here or the best process to test compression and fuel pressure on these would be extremely helpful. Still gotta go buy setups to test them.
Will post updates. Thank you in advance.
Main Symptoms:
-Starts up but immediately bogs out and dies, every time when sitting. Before gas tank was filled it would only do it here and there seemingly after the truck warms up a little.
-Erratic Idle
-Smells like Gas on driver side, no leaks found.
-No CEL or codes
List of parts changed on truck while in my possession:
-Plugs
-Wires
-Coilpacks (both)
-Thermostat sensor and housing
-Shocks
-Tires
-Ignition Control Module
-EGR Pressure Feedback Sensor
-Fuel Pressure Regulator
-Fuel Filter
I never post to forums, however I am at my wits end, and this Forums posts have helped me immensely in the past. Especially RonD who gets a special shout out for their immense wealth of knowledge that has taught me more than a thing or two in my short time on this earth and as a shadetree/amateur mechanic.
I have a 1994 Ford Ranger 2.3L that I bought in the summer of 20. Longbed single cab, white. Love this little thing, but its always had problems that I have slowly taken care of since then. Its never left me stranded once despite it throwing codes and having a rough idle. It was my daily driver for 40-50 miles a day. For the past 10 months it hasn't been driven nearly as much, no problems were noticed other than the usual. That was until a week ago. It did sit for a week and a half before this, half tank of gas. Went to a job interview, it stalled out not even a mile from home. Sitting at a light. It also refused to start back up. It would sound like it would start to turn then just bog out and die. Managed to roll it into a parking lot and a random truck bro came by to see if he could help. Didn't know what I was looking for but we opened the throttle all the way and after 30 sec of rough sounds it managed to start up and stay stable. Thanked him and went back home. I turned it off and it started up fine. Couldn't replicate the problem other than another time driving around that night and stopping. Felt like it was bogging but I was able to counteract it by giving it more throttle.
Decided it was time to start going through my engine codes again and actually fix them as I assumed something just got so bad it gave out. I was throwing codes 223, 224 and 335. Ill keep this part short. Basically days later and many hours in research (especially this site) helped me fix the 335 by changing out a bad EGR pressure feedback sensor. the 223 and 224 were fixed by changing out a bad NAPA ignition control module that came on the truck when I got it. Also found my spark plugs were all gapped to .056 so I gaped them all back down to .044. Cleaned the IAC did the simple test on the TPS by unplugging when running. Both seemed fine. Checked all vacuum lines and gas lines, no cracks or hissing/leaking that I can find. None of these things fixed the issue but they did make the truck run better when it was driving around and now I have no check engine light lol.
Last night I decided to take a break from it and get a fresh brain. So I got no error codes and its still running like this. I assume I'm getting spark and enough air. Which leaves me with gas and compression. I'm leaning on gas because Ive always been able to smell gas on the driver side. Smells rich? I know what everyone is gonna say "STOP THROWING PARTS AT IT". Well I needed a Hail Mary so this morning I replaced the FPR thinking that might be my problem. Didn't seem to change anything. Idol sounds like it cant decide where to sit, like its adjusting itself up or down every few seconds. So I have no info to go off of other than to do a compression test and fuel pressure test, which Ive never done before. Decided to fill the tank to see if it would act differently, and you know what it did. Now it stalls every time I start it up. Barely got it home from the gas station around the corner. Had to keep the throttle going harder even at low speeds. Now I can barely start it and when I do it dies every time.
Im sure there is stuff I have forgot in this post. This has been a weeklong ordeal for me. Im a mere humble shadetree that has never been to a mechanic in my life. This might be the one that does me in. Any advice from those on here or the best process to test compression and fuel pressure on these would be extremely helpful. Still gotta go buy setups to test them.
Will post updates. Thank you in advance.
Main Symptoms:
-Starts up but immediately bogs out and dies, every time when sitting. Before gas tank was filled it would only do it here and there seemingly after the truck warms up a little.
-Erratic Idle
-Smells like Gas on driver side, no leaks found.
-No CEL or codes
List of parts changed on truck while in my possession:
-Plugs
-Wires
-Coilpacks (both)
-Thermostat sensor and housing
-Shocks
-Tires
-Ignition Control Module
-EGR Pressure Feedback Sensor
-Fuel Pressure Regulator
-Fuel Filter
#2
Welcome to the forum
On Cold start engine should idle at 1,100rpms, so high idle, the colder it is the higher the idle
This means that the computer is seeing the cold Temp from the ECT sensor(different than 1 wire temp gauge sender), and is setting CHOKE mode, and the IAC Valve is responding to computers voltage changes
All cold gasoline engines need to be choked on start up, fuel injection didn't change that
As engine warms up the idle should slowly drop, Choke Mode ends when coolant temp is about 150degF, so after 4 to 8 minutes of run time, depending on outside temp, and YOUR driving, lol
If your COLD START doesn't do this then something is wrong
ECT sensor can also cause computer to STAY in Choke mode, rich running and higher idle, but rare for this to happen
Smell of gas isn't good, could be an injector is not closing all the way, so starts up then floods engine out when fuel pump is on full time
Try Clear Flooded Engine test
Turn key on
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down all the way, this tells computer to SHUT OFF fuel injectors
Turn key to START
Engine should not start or even fire, should be no fuel just spark
If it starts/fires you may have a leaking injector
You can unplug BOTH coil packs, the 3 wire connectors
Cycle key on and off 3 times
Crank engine over, count to 5
Remove 1 spark plug from each cylinder and look for the WET tip, that's the cylinder with the leaking injector
This can be a computer issue as well, or injector wire to computer is shorted to ground
The injectors all get 12volts with key on, the computer Grounds each injector to open it
You can use an OHM meter and test each injectors ground wire at the injector(only 4 of them) , it should never be grounded(0 ohms to ground) unless engine is actually running
On Cold start engine should idle at 1,100rpms, so high idle, the colder it is the higher the idle
This means that the computer is seeing the cold Temp from the ECT sensor(different than 1 wire temp gauge sender), and is setting CHOKE mode, and the IAC Valve is responding to computers voltage changes
All cold gasoline engines need to be choked on start up, fuel injection didn't change that
As engine warms up the idle should slowly drop, Choke Mode ends when coolant temp is about 150degF, so after 4 to 8 minutes of run time, depending on outside temp, and YOUR driving, lol
If your COLD START doesn't do this then something is wrong
ECT sensor can also cause computer to STAY in Choke mode, rich running and higher idle, but rare for this to happen
Smell of gas isn't good, could be an injector is not closing all the way, so starts up then floods engine out when fuel pump is on full time
Try Clear Flooded Engine test
Turn key on
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down all the way, this tells computer to SHUT OFF fuel injectors
Turn key to START
Engine should not start or even fire, should be no fuel just spark
If it starts/fires you may have a leaking injector
You can unplug BOTH coil packs, the 3 wire connectors
Cycle key on and off 3 times
Crank engine over, count to 5
Remove 1 spark plug from each cylinder and look for the WET tip, that's the cylinder with the leaking injector
This can be a computer issue as well, or injector wire to computer is shorted to ground
The injectors all get 12volts with key on, the computer Grounds each injector to open it
You can use an OHM meter and test each injectors ground wire at the injector(only 4 of them) , it should never be grounded(0 ohms to ground) unless engine is actually running
#3
So I cant see my exact idle because no tach. Ive always had to just listen to it. All my manuals have been like that lol.
Before, when it was starting up, it would start high idle/choke mode and slowly drop itself down. But this would be after like 30 sec not 4-8 min. Could I have gotten a bad ETC or thermostat when I replaced it? Ive heard there are two different kinds for two different temps? I have noticed since Ive replaced those that my engine temp never goes above 1/8th of the way. I thought I had just improved the cooling.
Tried the Clear Flooded Engine test it did not fire or crank or anything. Also did what you said with testing for wet plugs. Did that and checked all of them, other than the pesky plug under the intake, found the plug closest to the front of the car seemed like it had moisture on it. Smelt like gas. Tried the test again and when I pulled it out there was definitely gas on it. Time to get a new injector?
Gonna check that last plug after I post this. Thank you for all the useful info. You have no idea how much this is helping my sanity lol
Before, when it was starting up, it would start high idle/choke mode and slowly drop itself down. But this would be after like 30 sec not 4-8 min. Could I have gotten a bad ETC or thermostat when I replaced it? Ive heard there are two different kinds for two different temps? I have noticed since Ive replaced those that my engine temp never goes above 1/8th of the way. I thought I had just improved the cooling.
Tried the Clear Flooded Engine test it did not fire or crank or anything. Also did what you said with testing for wet plugs. Did that and checked all of them, other than the pesky plug under the intake, found the plug closest to the front of the car seemed like it had moisture on it. Smelt like gas. Tried the test again and when I pulled it out there was definitely gas on it. Time to get a new injector?
Gonna check that last plug after I post this. Thank you for all the useful info. You have no idea how much this is helping my sanity lol
#4
Rangers with any engine should run with dash temp gauge above 1/3 and below 1/2, after warm up, 5 to 8minutes
So you have have the wrong or bad thermostat, 190-195degF thermostat is recommended
In 1994 the Sender for the temp gauge is on drivers side of engine toward the back, just below the oil pressure switch
When engine is cold, sat for at least 6hours, longer is better
Open the hood and spin the fan, should be hard to spin
Start cold engine, count to 10 and shut it off
Spin fan again, should spin easily, if not fan clutch is bad, always locked and this causes low operating temps in winter
Restart engine
Feel heater hose and upper rad hose
Both will be cold of course
Wait 2 or 3 minutes of idling
Feel heater hose again, should be warming up
Feel upper rad hose, should still be COLD, if its warming up like heater hose then thermostat is stuck open, replace it
Drawing here: https://www.autozone.com/znetrgs/rep...3f8021b7e1.jpg
This is a 1 wire SENDER, so a 12volt unit
If you pull off its wire and GROUND that wire, jumper wire to battery Negative, and then turn on the key the Temp Gauge should go to HOT, all the way up, this means the wire and gauge are OK
Radiators are only used to get rid of EXTRA heat, in the winter some engines never use the radiator because its cold enough out for engine metal to expel the heat
The thermostat controls the flow to the radiator, so until the coolant in the engine reaches 190degF there should be NO FLOW to/thru the radiator so no flow thru its upper and lower hoses
The Fan is really only there for when vehicle is stopped, while driving the air flow thru radiator is enough to dissipate any extra heat
The fan clutch has a bi-metal spring on the front, this spring is heated up by THE RADIATOR, as the center of radiator heats up the spring heats up and expands
Inside the fan clutch are valves and OIL
When fan clutch is COLD the oil is thick, this is called COLD LOCK, and happens after engine has been sitting awhile, and makes it hard to spin
Within 10 seconds of starting up the engine the oil quickly thins out, so fan is easy to spin, its unlocked now, fan is not needed when engine/radiator is cold
You can usually hear this as well, on start up you HEAR the LOCKED fan pulling in air, then a few seconds later the noise goes away, fan is unlocked so is not moving any air
As the radiator heats up the spring expands and closes off the valves in the fan clutch, this causes the fan to slowly lock up to pull more air thru the radiator
The ECT sensor is at the front of the engine, has 2 wires, and runs on 5volts coming from the computer, so much different than the temp sender
If the engine didn't start or fire with Clear Flood Engine test then injectors are OK
O2 sensor closest to the engine may need to be changed, they only last for 12 years
Older O2 sensor will cause Rich running so cost you $$ in MPG every tank
So you have have the wrong or bad thermostat, 190-195degF thermostat is recommended
In 1994 the Sender for the temp gauge is on drivers side of engine toward the back, just below the oil pressure switch
When engine is cold, sat for at least 6hours, longer is better
Open the hood and spin the fan, should be hard to spin
Start cold engine, count to 10 and shut it off
Spin fan again, should spin easily, if not fan clutch is bad, always locked and this causes low operating temps in winter
Restart engine
Feel heater hose and upper rad hose
Both will be cold of course
Wait 2 or 3 minutes of idling
Feel heater hose again, should be warming up
Feel upper rad hose, should still be COLD, if its warming up like heater hose then thermostat is stuck open, replace it
Drawing here: https://www.autozone.com/znetrgs/rep...3f8021b7e1.jpg
This is a 1 wire SENDER, so a 12volt unit
If you pull off its wire and GROUND that wire, jumper wire to battery Negative, and then turn on the key the Temp Gauge should go to HOT, all the way up, this means the wire and gauge are OK
Radiators are only used to get rid of EXTRA heat, in the winter some engines never use the radiator because its cold enough out for engine metal to expel the heat
The thermostat controls the flow to the radiator, so until the coolant in the engine reaches 190degF there should be NO FLOW to/thru the radiator so no flow thru its upper and lower hoses
The Fan is really only there for when vehicle is stopped, while driving the air flow thru radiator is enough to dissipate any extra heat
The fan clutch has a bi-metal spring on the front, this spring is heated up by THE RADIATOR, as the center of radiator heats up the spring heats up and expands
Inside the fan clutch are valves and OIL
When fan clutch is COLD the oil is thick, this is called COLD LOCK, and happens after engine has been sitting awhile, and makes it hard to spin
Within 10 seconds of starting up the engine the oil quickly thins out, so fan is easy to spin, its unlocked now, fan is not needed when engine/radiator is cold
You can usually hear this as well, on start up you HEAR the LOCKED fan pulling in air, then a few seconds later the noise goes away, fan is unlocked so is not moving any air
As the radiator heats up the spring expands and closes off the valves in the fan clutch, this causes the fan to slowly lock up to pull more air thru the radiator
The ECT sensor is at the front of the engine, has 2 wires, and runs on 5volts coming from the computer, so much different than the temp sender
If the engine didn't start or fire with Clear Flood Engine test then injectors are OK
O2 sensor closest to the engine may need to be changed, they only last for 12 years
Older O2 sensor will cause Rich running so cost you $$ in MPG every tank
Last edited by RonD; 12-20-2021 at 03:09 PM.
#5
Ill go check the sender now, I haven't ever found or tested it before. I know for sure I replaced the ETC sensor, not the sender, at the front of the car with a thermostat and new housing that included a port for the ETC sensor rather than it sitting in the middle of a coolant line. I know when i bought the thermostat I wasn't aware of the different kinds and I probably bought whatever the lower temperature was.
Retried wet plug test and all were dry. A drop of rainwater probably hit the one I was looking at and made me think it was wet. 02 probably needs to be replaced. I don't think much had ever been done to it before I owned it, a lot of the parts I pull off look original.
What does the difference of the truck at least starting with less than a half tank of gas vs not at all on a full tank tell me?
Retried wet plug test and all were dry. A drop of rainwater probably hit the one I was looking at and made me think it was wet. 02 probably needs to be replaced. I don't think much had ever been done to it before I owned it, a lot of the parts I pull off look original.
What does the difference of the truck at least starting with less than a half tank of gas vs not at all on a full tank tell me?
Last edited by SherpaNW; 12-20-2021 at 03:21 PM.
#6
I don't think I could find a correlation between no start with full tank and an OK start with 1/2 tank
The opposite could point to a leak in the pumps fuel line, in the gas tank..............maybe, when below say 1/2 tank the leak is exposed to the air so would squirt fuel out but also suck air in, sending air to the engine and injectors, but probably not a no start, more of a rough running all the time because of air in the fuel lines when tank was below 1/2 full
The opposite could point to a leak in the pumps fuel line, in the gas tank..............maybe, when below say 1/2 tank the leak is exposed to the air so would squirt fuel out but also suck air in, sending air to the engine and injectors, but probably not a no start, more of a rough running all the time because of air in the fuel lines when tank was below 1/2 full
#7
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